Why makes Buddhism true ?

General discussion, particularly exploring the Dharma in the modern world.
newagegeek
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:29 pm

Why makes Buddhism true ?

Post by newagegeek »

I have been researching several religions lately. Buddhism appears to be logical compared to several others.

I would want to clear certain stuff out of my head, with regards to Buddhism (which applies to all religions in general)

Buddhism (like other religions) claims that it has the only truth. Only by following the Buddha could we attain salvation.

If Buddhism is the *true* religion why is not widespread ? Why Buddha was specifically born in India, and taught only to Indians ? He could have made several appearances and taught to every single being in the world. But Buddha who is the Teacher of the gods and men, appealed only to a very narrow regional audience (of North India to be precise). In fact, Buddha was one of the several many other teachers who were teaching around the same time, same region at that time in India. There could be chances that his image was just blown out of proportion with exaggerated tales and hagiography (typical of religious followers).

I believe all religions have the Geographic limitation in that they were centered only on specific regions and don't really care about the others. The entire Abrahamic bunch expanded only on the ethno-religious beliefs of the Jews (and always focused on them). All Indian religions are focused on only India. The gods are all India, the legends are all Indian. Even in Buddhism, most of the past Buddhas are supposed to have born only in India. It is as if other parts of the world doesn't exist at all !

So why was the West in particular deprived of the *way to salvation* for around 2000 years ? . Even in India... Buddhism nearly disappeared ! Is it because the entire west didn't have any Karma to receive the way, and hence had to wait for 2000 years to receive the truth ? Why did Buddhism disappear in Buddha's own land ?

In summary, how is Buddhism different from other religions ? and why should I think that it has the ultimate *truth* ?
User avatar
Konchog1
Posts: 1673
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:30 am

Re: Why makes Buddhism true ?

Post by Konchog1 »

Karma.

It's not that Buddhism is Indian. It's that the eternal law appeared in India and became flavored by Indian culture, particularly over time. The Four Seals for example, are not culturally specific.

But those with a past life connection have realized Buddhist truths without being Buddhist. David Hume's bundle theory for example.

Following your logic, since Buddhism is Indian, then given that almost all Buddhists today aren't Indian, then almost all Buddhists today are not Buddhist.
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats
User avatar
PadmaVonSamba
Posts: 9443
Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 1:41 am

Re: Why makes Buddhism true ?

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

There is no historical proof that the Buddha ever taught what people say he taught.
In fact, his teachings were not even written down until a century after he gave them,
some 5,000 miles south of where he spoke them, and in a language he didn't use.
So, there is no way to actually prove the teachings are true,
to your own satisfaction at least, except to test them out for yourself.
That is how we know Buddhism (the Dharma) is true.

What you describe is like rubbing two sticks together to make a fire.
We don't know who did that first, but we can replicate it, and that validates it.

There are historical reasons for most of the other issues you raise.
Buddha could have taught anywhere, of course.
And he might have. But "Buddha" is an Indian word,
and there were a lot of people in India who were listening to him.
So, like a popular song, it caught on. It went viral.
So, you know, maybe he taught in some other continents too,
but only 3 people listened to him,and that was the end of that.
We can make guesses. It doesn't really matter
because we can't prove it.
Even Buddha said (we think) that at some point even these teachings we have now
nobody will pay any attention to, or won't be able to grasp, and they will fade away.

If you look at history, most things happen within a social context.
They can only happen at a certain place and at a certain time in history because of the right conditions.
For example, what Andy Warhol did in the art world really could have not happened in the 1950s or earlier.
It could only happen in the 1960's, as part of it, and as part of what defined it.
So, we wouldn't think to ask,
"why wasn't Warhol silk screening soup cans during the Ming Dynasty in China?"
Because the conditions for that, except maybe for the silk, the pieces were not all there.
On the other hand, Chinese calligraphy is a great example of abstract art
which didn't happen in the west until the middle of the 20th century.
So, sometimes it all depends on how you look at it.

Buddhism teaches that all things arise interdependently.
"Searching for the truth" was, you might say, in style at the time of the Buddha.
A lot of concepts that appear in Buddhism, such as karma and rebirth, were already part of Hindu culture.
Likewise, in the days of Jesus, a lot of people claimed to be prophets of God.
So, that's when you have a big audience, and your message takes root.
.
.
.
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 17092
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Re: Why makes Buddhism true ?

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Not widespread?

Last I checked it's the fourth largest religion in this fairly large world of folks, i'd say that's pretty widespread.

Anyway, truth is not necessarily the most popular thing.
There could be chances that his image was just blown out of proportion with exaggerated tales and hagiography (typical of religious followers).
Doesn't matter at all. Especially from a Mahayana perspective, the historical factoidss don't mean that much. Truth manifests itself in a variety of ways, and whether the historical Buddha was this, that, or the other thing is secondary to the truths he taught. The whole idea of "original teachings" is something of a red herring in Buddhist terms.
So why was the West in particular deprived of the *way to salvation* for around 2000 years ? . Even in India... Buddhism nearly disappeared ! Is it because the entire west didn't have any Karma to receive the way, and hence had to wait for 2000 years to receive the truth ? Why did Buddhism disappear in Buddha's own land ?

In summary, how is Buddhism different from other religions ? and why should I think that it has the ultimate *truth* ?
Who knows, Karma is one of the hardest things to understand, no way of understanding the answer to those questions, not something knowable from out vantage point. Again again it's said that not everyone even has the capacity to know the truth upon hearing it anyway.

As to why you should think it has the ultimate truth..you shouldn't, you should practice it, examine it, test it and see if it's true through experience.

I started with the three marks of existence:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_marks_of_existence

You are not supposed to just believe them, examine them, extrapolate them..test them out and see if they are true.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

-Khunu Lama
Son of Buddha
Posts: 1123
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:48 pm

Re: Why makes Buddhism true ?

Post by Son of Buddha »

In Buddhist holy texts it says there were 28 Buddhas listed to have come into this world before Shakyamuni Buddha,and if you look throughout human history you will start to see some strange coincidences.

For instance how the swastica exists in almost every single culture in this world,Buddha statues in south america ect..ect
User avatar
Matt J
Posts: 1440
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 2:29 am
Location: Denver, CO

Re: Why makes Buddhism true ?

Post by Matt J »

First off, Buddhism is not a single, solid block of concrete that means the same thing to everyone. Buddhist teaching is colored as it moves to China, SE Asia, Korea, Japan, etc. Having said that, in my view, Buddhist teaching is not about salvation the way Christianity is. Buddhist teaching is about the arising and ending of suffering.

So I wouldn't say that Buddhism is the "true" religion, but I can say from experience that practicing Buddhist teaching DOES reduce suffering in life. Tremendously. How do I know? Through first hand experience.

How to know which religion is for you---- try them out! The Buddha says in the Kalama Sutta that we shouldn't simply believe the things we are told. We must apply them, then we can see for ourselves.
"The world is made of stories, not atoms."
--- Muriel Rukeyser
User avatar
Seishin
Former staff member
Posts: 1915
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:53 am
Contact:

Re: Why makes Buddhism true ?

Post by Seishin »

I don't believe the Buddha chose to be born in India, I think that was his karma, but even if it was his choice how can we say for sure that it wasn't the right choice. Perhaps India was the best choice at the time. Who knows. Also, it may be of interest that Buddhism first spread west before spreading east.. Try googling Grecco Buddhism. For whatever reason, it didn't take, but was very popular in the east.

Gassho,
Seishin
Jesse
Posts: 2127
Joined: Wed May 08, 2013 6:54 am
Location: Virginia, USA

Re: Why makes Buddhism true ?

Post by Jesse »

To think we have captured the truth of the universe in any sense is deluded. Buddhism is made to alleviate human suffering, emptiness is only true in-so-far as the human mind works. Buddhism is not more or less true than any other religion.
Image
Thus shall ye think of all this fleeting world:
A star at dawn, a bubble in a stream;
A flash of lightning in a summer cloud,
A flickering lamp, a phantom, and a dream.
Ramon1920
Posts: 231
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:57 am

Re: Why makes Buddhism true ?

Post by Ramon1920 »

Newagegeek, you seem to be coming from the position that there's some divine plan that should see everyone with the same good fortune and inquiring why Buddhism isn't fitting into the plan you've imagined.

Buddhism is true because gives the results it promises. Who knows about other religions? I personally don't want to get my mind confused by trying to sort them out.
User avatar
Sara H
Posts: 575
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:51 pm
Location: On Hiatus from Dharmawheel.

Re: Why makes Buddhism true ?

Post by Sara H »

Well what makes physics true?

The fact that we try it and see that it works.

*grins*

That we can prove it true by experimentation.

Lol.

Sara
Observing your mind is a good idea.
User avatar
randomseb
Posts: 255
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:12 am

Re: Why makes Buddhism true ?

Post by randomseb »

The Way described in buddhism can also be found in some other religions.. They just aren't so obvious and easily available, for various reasons, often political (think Inquisition)

For example, Jesus went on a 40 day meditation retreat before finally having an enlightenment experience in a river, says the new testament. The old testament refers to the 40 days and 40 nights every now and then too. Genesis starts with a metaphorical description of the mind process

:shrug:

What makes buddhism true? Why don't you try it and eventually, if your practice is sincere, that is to say, you truly examine your own mind and apply the teachings, you should experience the results for yourself, as countless people have done in the last 2600 years

:twothumbsup:
Disclaimer: If I have posted about something, then I obviously have no idea what I am talking about!
User avatar
seeker242
Posts: 2092
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2012 2:50 pm
Location: South Florida, USA

Re: Why makes Buddhism true ?

Post by seeker242 »

Practicing it and finding out for yourself that it's true, is what makes it true. :smile:

:anjali:
One should not kill any living being, nor cause it to be killed, nor should one incite any other to kill. Do never injure any being, whether strong or weak, in this entire universe!
User avatar
Wayfarer
Former staff member
Posts: 5150
Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 8:31 am
Location: AU

Re: What makes Buddhism true ?

Post by Wayfarer »

I wish someone would fix the title of this thread. If you can't state the question intelligibly then you have no reason to expect an intelligible response.
'Only practice with no gaining idea' ~ Suzuki Roshi
User avatar
PadmaVonSamba
Posts: 9443
Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 1:41 am

Re: What makes Buddhism true ?

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

jeeprs wrote:I wish someone would fix the title of this thread. If you can't state the question intelligibly then you have no reason to expect an intelligible response.
Maybe it's actually correct.
Maybe (asking) "why" is what makes Buddhism true.
Does "why" make Buddhism true, or what?
:?:
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
User avatar
mandala
Posts: 171
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:51 pm

Re: Why makes Buddhism true ?

Post by mandala »

newagegeek wrote:In summary, how is Buddhism different from other religions ? and why should I think that it has the ultimate *truth* ?
One of the main points of difference is that Buddhism does not posit a creator god.
You can think what you like, really.. but if you're interested in going further in your enquiry, the Buddha taught that it's essential to know & test the teachings thoroughly, using logic & reasoning & applying it to your own life to see if it works. That's when the fun begins...
User avatar
randomseb
Posts: 255
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:12 am

Re: Why makes Buddhism true ?

Post by randomseb »

No god (although many in buddhist countries seem to treat Buddha in this way), no souls (although many seem to mistakenly posit one based on misunderstanding transmigration), no strict commandments leading to heaven/hell rewards (although many mistake karma for this kind of system, and mistake buddhist heaven/hell metaphors for actual places), no going to a priest to get a magic spell waved at you to dispel all of your sins, you have to actually dig deep inside yourself to see what is going on and to resolve things directly, yourself. (But many will get blessings anyway, and there can be reasons for this to be useful)

It's not a lazy person's spiritual path, no amount of making lip service at a weekly church convocation will do you any good personally! (In terms of spiritual advancements anyway)
Disclaimer: If I have posted about something, then I obviously have no idea what I am talking about!
User avatar
Grigoris
Former staff member
Posts: 21938
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Why makes Buddhism true ?

Post by Grigoris »

newagegeek wrote:So why was the West in particular deprived of the *way to salvation* for around 2000 years ?
It wasn't deprived of *the way to salvation*, Buddhism reached Europe (Greece to be exact) just after 320BC.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
User avatar
Nosta
Posts: 930
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:28 pm

Re: Why makes Buddhism true ?

Post by Nosta »

newagegeek wrote: If Buddhism is the *true* religion why is not widespread ? [...] Even in Buddhism, most of the past Buddhas are supposed to have born only in India. It is as if other parts of the world doesn't exist at all !

So why was the West in particular deprived of the *way to salvation* for around 2000 years ?

I think that the answer is Karma. In a general way, people dont have enough karma, a clean path so to say, in order to have access to Buddhism. But be careful because this is not about punishment. What I am talking here is about having the conditions to access buddhism, and not having karma to take contact with buddhism, means that such conditions could not arise (yet) to some people.

Even Buddhism masters said that omniscience itself is dependent from causes and conditions. Something that depends from causes cannot arise at every moment on everywhere. That means that not every people will have, in a given place and time, access to omniscience neither to the path that leads to it (Buddhism).

And even if you have access to Buddhism, who says that you will accept it? Western people for instance, are more interested on Christianism. They dont think the buddhism path is the best path.

Now lets look at things on a different view: Christians and Christ itself taught that we should love people, we should not kill, etc and we find the same ideas on other religions, but do you see any of them teaching you how to love? Do you see any of such religions teaching you how to deal with emotions and how do deal with the vast emotions we experience, so you can turn yourself on a better person? How should you act with your inner yourself so you can achieve true love and true desire to build a better society? The best such religions will do ( as Islamism and Christianism, Jewish, etc ) is just say that you should pray to your god and love your neighbour (when they are not saying to kill the non-believers...). Buddhism, on the other hand (and possibly other religions, I dont know) will teach you complete systems and methods on how to deal with your inner self and all the emotions you have. Thats something unique! I will even go further and say that there are not any modern psycological methods ( from specialists, like doctors, scientists, etc) able to do what Buddhism can do for our sanity!

Buddhism is the Perfect Path and I will stick to it. :)
Motova
Posts: 1322
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:05 pm

Re: Why makes Buddhism true ?

Post by Motova »

As the others have said, experimenting is the only way to find out as you will see signs and changes in your life. But before entering Buddhism there is a necessary process of self-inquiry that one must go through to logically accept the essential concepts, particularly: karma, rebirth, non-self.

:namaste:

/Dylan
To become a rain man one must master the ten virtues and sciences.
User avatar
Grigoris
Former staff member
Posts: 21938
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Why makes Buddhism true ?

Post by Grigoris »

Motova wrote:As the others have said, experimenting is the only way to find out as you will see signs and changes in your life. But before entering Buddhism there is a necessary process of self-inquiry that one must go through to logically accept the essential concepts, particularly: karma, rebirth, non-self.

:namaste:

/Dylan
Not necessarily. One can practice Anapanasati meditation and have positive results without logically accepting any of those concepts.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Post Reply

Return to “Dharma in Everyday Life”