Red Chenrezig - NOT Gyalwa Gyatso

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Palzang Jangchub
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Red Chenrezig - NOT Gyalwa Gyatso

Post by Palzang Jangchub »

There is another red form of Chenrezig known as Khorwa Dongtruk (sometimes written "Korwa Tongtrug"). He is usually depicted with two arms, and is standing. It was the empowerment of this form that HH the 17th Gyalwang Karmapa gave to 20,000 disciples who congregated at Tsurphu a day or two after he was enthroned and his hair was cut at the Jokhang in front of the Jowo Rinpoche.

Does anyone have detailed information on this manifestation of Avalokita?

Thus far I've been able to ascertain that it was Thangtong Gyalpo who gave the wang, lung, and tri of Guru Chöwang's terma to the 6th Karmapa, Thongwa Dönden. Apparently this occurred only after some of the monks at the Great Encampment had attempted to stone Thangtong to death and failed, upon which he was ushered into the Karmapa's personal tent.
:jawdrop:
Image

"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྩ་བའི་བླ་མ་སྐྱབས་རྗེ་མགར་ཆེན་ཁྲི་སྤྲུལ་རིན་པོ་ཆེ་ཁྱེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ།།
རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་མཁས་གྲུབ་ཀརྨ་ཆགས་མེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ། ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོཿ
Dhondrub
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Re: Red Chenrezig - NOT Gyalwa Gyatso

Post by Dhondrub »

Karma Jinpa wrote:There is another red form of Chenrezig known as Khorwa Dongtruk (sometimes written "Korwa Tongtrug"). He is usually depicted with two arms, and is standing. It was the empowerment of this form that HH the 17th Gyalwang Karmapa gave to 20,000 disciples who congregated at Tsurphu a day or two after he was enthroned and his hair was cut at the Jokhang in front of the Jowo Rinpoche.

Does anyone have detailed information on this manifestation of Avalokita?

Thus far I've been able to ascertain that it was Thangtong Gyalpo who gave the wang, lung, and tri of Guru Chöwang's terma to the 6th Karmapa, Thongwa Dönden. Apparently this occurred only after some of the monks at the Great Encampment had attempted to stone Thangtong to death and failed, upon which he was ushered into the Karmapa's personal tent.
:jawdrop:

There is a practice connected to this form that is done for beings in the Bardo. It is quite common in the Kamtsang lineage.
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heart
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Re: Red Chenrezig - NOT Gyalwa Gyatso

Post by heart »

Karma Jinpa wrote:There is another red form of Chenrezig known as Khorwa Dongtruk (sometimes written "Korwa Tongtrug"). He is usually depicted with two arms, and is standing. It was the empowerment of this form that HH the 17th Gyalwang Karmapa gave to 20,000 disciples who congregated at Tsurphu a day or two after he was enthroned and his hair was cut at the Jokhang in front of the Jowo Rinpoche.

Does anyone have detailed information on this manifestation of Avalokita?

Thus far I've been able to ascertain that it was Thangtong Gyalpo who gave the wang, lung, and tri of Guru Chöwang's terma to the 6th Karmapa, Thongwa Dönden. Apparently this occurred only after some of the monks at the Great Encampment had attempted to stone Thangtong to death and failed, upon which he was ushered into the Karmapa's personal tent.
:jawdrop:
Could be Korwa Dongtruk from Chokling Tersar or some other treasure lineage. ChNNR give this teachings from both Adzom Drukpa and Chokling Tersar.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
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Palzang Jangchub
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Re: Red Chenrezig - NOT Gyalwa Gyatso

Post by Palzang Jangchub »

Dhondrub wrote:There is a practice connected to this form that is done for beings in the Bardo. It is quite common in the Kamtsang lineage.
That's one of the primary reasons I'm interested in this particular form. I'm an aspiring chaplain, and would presumably be dealing with death quite a bit in my future career. As a matter of fact, the Bardo between lives and practices for the dead have been at the forefront ever since I started on the path... The first text I ever read was Sogyal Rinpoche's Tibetan Book of Living & Dying. Been interested in the Bardo Thödöl, Phowa and the like ever since.

I believe the text you're referring to specifically is the Namdag Digdrib Thamché Shegpa'i Gyalpo Narag Dongtruk, composed by Jamgön Kongtrul Lodrö Thayé based on the terma sadhana by Guru Chöwang. The only reason I know this is because---in a weird twist of karma---one of my professors from FSU noted it in his book, The Hidden History of the Tibetan Book of the Dead: http://tinyurl.com/odeosf2

Does anyone know where either sadhana is available?

Even the deity's name---Chenrezig Thugjé Chenpo Khorwa Dongtruk (Avalokita, the Great Compassionate One who Dredges the Pit of Samsara)---somehow resonates with me... Especially the last bit. Came across a similar phrase in Kaybjé Penor Rinpoche's swift rebirth prayer and was greatly inspired.

:sage:
heart wrote:Could be Korwa Dongtruk from Chokling Tersar or some other treasure lineage. ChNNR give this teachings from both Adzom Drukpa and Chokling Tersar.

/magnus
There are apparently multiple terma from various cycles featuring this form of Chenrezig. Chokling Tersar is another likely origin for the empowerment given by the 17th Karmapa, especially in light of the mutual teacher-disciple relationship between Chokgyur Lingpa and the 14th Karmapa, Thekchok Dorjé. However, the story as told in King of the Empty Plain (p. 211) is just too extraordinary to ignore, not to mention that it means the Karmapas had the practice 8 incarnations prior to the time of Chokgyur Lingpa. http://tinyurl.com/nuqk3e4

Perhaps in the Karmapas the lineages of both Guru Chöwang & Chokgyur Lingpa have been merged into one? Karmapa is Chenrezig incarnate, after all :bow:

Thanks for the info regarding ChNN! While the lineage of Guru Chöwang would be ideal, I'd love to get instruction on this yidam from Rinpoche, whatever the lineage since I suspect they're not too different. I'd have the book on the practice by Adzom Drukpa already if it weren't restricted. http://www.shangshungstore.org/index.ph ... etail&p=45

If anyone hears of an empowerment of this deity being webcast, I'd greatly appreciate it if you'd announce it here!
Image

"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྩ་བའི་བླ་མ་སྐྱབས་རྗེ་མགར་ཆེན་ཁྲི་སྤྲུལ་རིན་པོ་ཆེ་ཁྱེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ།།
རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་མཁས་གྲུབ་ཀརྨ་ཆགས་མེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ། ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོཿ
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conebeckham
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Re: Red Chenrezig - NOT Gyalwa Gyatso

Post by conebeckham »

The one that's commonly done by Karma Kagyu Lamas for Jangchog (death ritual) is Chogling's Khorwa Dongdruk. You'll find the sadhana and the jangchog ritual text in most Karma Kagyu monasteries' "Collected Prayers" or "ShelDon."

You should ask a Lama to give the empowerment.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
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Re: Red Chenrezig - NOT Gyalwa Gyatso

Post by Schrödinger’s Yidam »

I'm an aspiring chaplain...
That's ok, we won't tell. Your secret is safe with us...
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
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conebeckham
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Re: Red Chenrezig - NOT Gyalwa Gyatso

Post by conebeckham »

Image
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
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Palzang Jangchub
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Re: Red Chenrezig - NOT Gyalwa Gyatso

Post by Palzang Jangchub »

Any difference between Khorwa Dondrup and Khorwa Dongtruk, or is it just a matter of transliteration?
Image

"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྩ་བའི་བླ་མ་སྐྱབས་རྗེ་མགར་ཆེན་ཁྲི་སྤྲུལ་རིན་པོ་ཆེ་ཁྱེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ།།
རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་མཁས་གྲུབ་ཀརྨ་ཆགས་མེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ། ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོཿ
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Re: Red Chenrezig - NOT Gyalwa Gyatso

Post by Palzang Jangchub »

Protection amulet? Liberation Upon Seeing?

Image
Image

"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྩ་བའི་བླ་མ་སྐྱབས་རྗེ་མགར་ཆེན་ཁྲི་སྤྲུལ་རིན་པོ་ཆེ་ཁྱེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ།།
རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་མཁས་གྲུབ་ཀརྨ་ཆགས་མེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ། ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོཿ
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conebeckham
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Re: Red Chenrezig - NOT Gyalwa Gyatso

Post by conebeckham »

It's" DongDruk".....'khor ba dong sprugs in Wylie.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
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Palzang Jangchub
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Re: Red Chenrezig - NOT Gyalwa Gyatso

Post by Palzang Jangchub »

conebeckham wrote:It's" DongDruk".....'khor ba dong sprugs in Wylie.
Ah. At RYI they taught me "sa pata pa, pa rata tra" :thinking:

The reason I ask about K(h)orwa Dondrup is because I've seen that nearly as much as Tongtrug. Even when I went to save the photo you posted, the filename includes "Dundrop," with the vowels likely being accidentally transposed...

:rolleye:
Image

"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྩ་བའི་བླ་མ་སྐྱབས་རྗེ་མགར་ཆེན་ཁྲི་སྤྲུལ་རིན་པོ་ཆེ་ཁྱེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ།།
རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་མཁས་གྲུབ་ཀརྨ་ཆགས་མེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ། ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོཿ
Dhondrub
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Re: Red Chenrezig - NOT Gyalwa Gyatso

Post by Dhondrub »

I should have a pdf somewhere with english translation, but it goes without saying that you need Wang, Lung and Tri.
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conebeckham
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Re: Red Chenrezig - NOT Gyalwa Gyatso

Post by conebeckham »

Ya, it's common to see mistakes in phoneticized Tibetan.....even in Sanskrit. My personal favorite is "Chakrasambhava" --

Regarding "DongDruk" or "Tongtruk"--The non-aspirated first-column labial, "pa," really becomes more like a first-column non-aspirated dental "ta" with the cerebral retroflex, when the "ra-tag" is added...but it's then "protected" by the "ngonjuk" (prefix) "Sa." So it becomes more of a "Dr" sound than a "Tr" sound...to non-Tibetan ears, at least.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
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Karma Dorje
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Re: Red Chenrezig - NOT Gyalwa Gyatso

Post by Karma Dorje »

Karma Jinpa wrote: If anyone hears of an empowerment of this deity being webcast, I'd greatly appreciate it if you'd announce it here!
ChNNR typically gives permission for this at the end of each retreat among the secondary practices. This (along with direct introduction) is all you need to practice it according to how he teaches it.
"Although my view is higher than the sky, My respect for the cause and effect of actions is as fine as grains of flour."
-Padmasambhava
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heart
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Re: Red Chenrezig - NOT Gyalwa Gyatso

Post by heart »

Karma Jinpa wrote:Protection amulet? Liberation Upon Seeing?
Both. This is from ChNNR. Last year he gave wang, lung and tri (in his own style) for Korwa Dontruk from Adzom Drukpa in Barcelona and by open webcast.
By the way I am pretty sure the first empowerment Karmapa gave was the Korwa Dontruk from Chokling Tersar.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
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conebeckham
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Re: Red Chenrezig - NOT Gyalwa Gyatso

Post by conebeckham »

Yep, Magnus.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
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Re: Red Chenrezig - NOT Gyalwa Gyatso

Post by futerko »

heart wrote: This is from ChNNR. Last year he gave wang, lung and tri (in his own style) for Korwa Dontruk from Adzom Drukpa in Barcelona and by open webcast.
I was going to say I think it was this summer, but I checked and in fact it was almost a year back. If I recall correctly this was a wrathful form, but don't trust my perceptions, I don't. :tongue:
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Palzang Jangchub
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Re: Red Chenrezig - NOT Gyalwa Gyatso

Post by Palzang Jangchub »

heart wrote:By the way I am pretty sure the first empowerment Karmapa gave was the Korwa Dontruk from Chokling Tersar.

/magnus
Oh really? How can we be sure? I find myself interested because, amongst other things, I completed my accumulation of 100k Karkhyen mantras on the anniversary of that empowerment...

:thanks:
Image

"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྩ་བའི་བླ་མ་སྐྱབས་རྗེ་མགར་ཆེན་ཁྲི་སྤྲུལ་རིན་པོ་ཆེ་ཁྱེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ།།
རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་མཁས་གྲུབ་ཀརྨ་ཆགས་མེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ། ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོཿ
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Palzang Jangchub
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Re: Red Chenrezig - NOT Gyalwa Gyatso

Post by Palzang Jangchub »

From the cover of ChNNR's book on the practice of Tertön Adzom Drukpa:

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"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྩ་བའི་བླ་མ་སྐྱབས་རྗེ་མགར་ཆེན་ཁྲི་སྤྲུལ་རིན་པོ་ཆེ་ཁྱེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ།།
རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་མཁས་གྲུབ་ཀརྨ་ཆགས་མེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ། ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོཿ
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Re: Red Chenrezig - NOT Gyalwa Gyatso

Post by heart »

Karma Jinpa wrote:
heart wrote:By the way I am pretty sure the first empowerment Karmapa gave was the Korwa Dontruk from Chokling Tersar.

/magnus
Oh really? How can we be sure? I find myself interested because, amongst other things, I completed my accumulation of 100k Karkhyen mantras on the anniversary of that empowerment...

:thanks:
This is what I remember was said at the time, because of my personal connection with Chokling Tersar I considered it an auspicious sign.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
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