- elephant perspectives 6.jpg (266 KiB) Viewed 4400 times
Perspective
- gad rgyangs
- Posts: 1142
- Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 4:53 pm
Perspective
Thoroughly tame your own mind.
This is (possibly) the teaching of Buddha.
"I must finally conclude that this proposition, I am, I exist, is necessarily true whenever it is put forward by me or conceived in my mind."
- Descartes, 2nd Meditation 25
This is (possibly) the teaching of Buddha.
"I must finally conclude that this proposition, I am, I exist, is necessarily true whenever it is put forward by me or conceived in my mind."
- Descartes, 2nd Meditation 25
Re: Perspective
gad rgyangs wrote:
You do realize this analogy was first introduced by the Buddha?
- gad rgyangs
- Posts: 1142
- Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 4:53 pm
Re: Perspective
he so smart! How come nobody listen to him?Malcolm wrote:gad rgyangs wrote:
You do realize this analogy was first introduced by the Buddha?
Thoroughly tame your own mind.
This is (possibly) the teaching of Buddha.
"I must finally conclude that this proposition, I am, I exist, is necessarily true whenever it is put forward by me or conceived in my mind."
- Descartes, 2nd Meditation 25
This is (possibly) the teaching of Buddha.
"I must finally conclude that this proposition, I am, I exist, is necessarily true whenever it is put forward by me or conceived in my mind."
- Descartes, 2nd Meditation 25
Re: Perspective
gad rgyangs wrote:he so smart! How come nobody listen to him?Malcolm wrote:gad rgyangs wrote:
You do realize this analogy was first introduced by the Buddha?
I rather doubt he intended to included his own Dharma in the above description.
- gad rgyangs
- Posts: 1142
- Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 4:53 pm
Re: Perspective
oh, then he not as smart as I thought....Malcolm wrote: I rather doubt he intended to included his own Dharma in the above description.
Thoroughly tame your own mind.
This is (possibly) the teaching of Buddha.
"I must finally conclude that this proposition, I am, I exist, is necessarily true whenever it is put forward by me or conceived in my mind."
- Descartes, 2nd Meditation 25
This is (possibly) the teaching of Buddha.
"I must finally conclude that this proposition, I am, I exist, is necessarily true whenever it is put forward by me or conceived in my mind."
- Descartes, 2nd Meditation 25
- dzogchungpa
- Posts: 6333
- Joined: Sat May 28, 2011 10:50 pm
Re: Perspective
Is that actually known for a fact?Malcolm wrote:You do realize this analogy was first introduced by the Buddha?
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
Re: Perspective
dzogchungpa wrote:Is that actually known for a fact?Malcolm wrote:You do realize this analogy was first introduced by the Buddha?
Yes.
Re: Perspective
gad rgyangs wrote:oh, then he not as smart as I thought....Malcolm wrote: I rather doubt he intended to included his own Dharma in the above description.
Certainly not as smart as you and all the perennialists out there. But being a Buddha, he does not have to be smart, merely totally awakened.
- gad rgyangs
- Posts: 1142
- Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 4:53 pm
Re: Perspective
oops. you walked right into that one! Perennialism says that all religions are expressing the same universal truth. My graphix clearly shows that the various religions (as well as science) are all different, partial perspectives on the nature of reality.Malcolm wrote: Certainly not as smart as you and all the perennialists out there. But being a Buddha, he does not have to be smart, merely totally awakened.
Thoroughly tame your own mind.
This is (possibly) the teaching of Buddha.
"I must finally conclude that this proposition, I am, I exist, is necessarily true whenever it is put forward by me or conceived in my mind."
- Descartes, 2nd Meditation 25
This is (possibly) the teaching of Buddha.
"I must finally conclude that this proposition, I am, I exist, is necessarily true whenever it is put forward by me or conceived in my mind."
- Descartes, 2nd Meditation 25
- Johnny Dangerous
- Global Moderator
- Posts: 17093
- Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
- Location: Olympia WA
- Contact:
Re: Perspective
Just out of curiousity, by what is it known for sure that this parable is the words of the Buddha, and not a staple analogy of his times? I was under the impression that this was an old Indian story, of uncertain origin that was attributed to the Buddha, and many other sources.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
- dzogchungpa
- Posts: 6333
- Joined: Sat May 28, 2011 10:50 pm
Re: Perspective
Well, it occurs, e.g., here: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .irel.html
I'm not quite sure how it could be established that it originated with the Buddha though. It's also very much a Jain kind of story.
I'm not quite sure how it could be established that it originated with the Buddha though. It's also very much a Jain kind of story.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
Re: Perspective
No, perennialism states that all religions are partial revelations if a universal truth, or reality.gad rgyangs wrote:oops. you walked right into that one! Perennialism says that all religions are expressing the same universal truth. My graphix clearly shows that the various religions (as well as science) are all different, partial perspectives on the nature of reality.Malcolm wrote: Certainly not as smart as you and all the perennialists out there. But being a Buddha, he does not have to be smart, merely totally awakened.
- Johnny Dangerous
- Global Moderator
- Posts: 17093
- Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
- Location: Olympia WA
- Contact:
Re: Perspective
dzogchungpa wrote:Well, it occurs, e.g., here: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .irel.html
I'm not quite sure how it could be established that it originated with the Buddha though. It's also very much a Jain kind of story.
Right I know there's a few places with the analogy, or similar analogies...to me though, that could just as easily argue in favor of the story being extant already, since that's sure the case with plenty of other such stuff in the Pal Canon.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
- dzogchungpa
- Posts: 6333
- Joined: Sat May 28, 2011 10:50 pm
Re: Perspective
This Jataka story is similar:
http://www.palikanon.com/english/pali_n ... at_248.htm
http://www.palikanon.com/english/pali_n ... at_248.htm
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
- gad rgyangs
- Posts: 1142
- Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 4:53 pm
Re: Perspective
there is a fundamental difference between saying that all religions are expressing the same truth, and saying that all human conceptual systems (religious as well as secular science and philosophy) are inherently limited, metaphorical attempts to describe something that is beyond categories and definitions. Perennialism is always couched in language like "all religions are one" and emphasizes similarities among religions and so-called mystical experiences. What I am suggesting with my doodle is more like Perspectivism or AnekāntavādaMalcolm wrote: No, perennialism states that all religions are partial revelations if a universal truth, or reality.
Thoroughly tame your own mind.
This is (possibly) the teaching of Buddha.
"I must finally conclude that this proposition, I am, I exist, is necessarily true whenever it is put forward by me or conceived in my mind."
- Descartes, 2nd Meditation 25
This is (possibly) the teaching of Buddha.
"I must finally conclude that this proposition, I am, I exist, is necessarily true whenever it is put forward by me or conceived in my mind."
- Descartes, 2nd Meditation 25
- dzogchungpa
- Posts: 6333
- Joined: Sat May 28, 2011 10:50 pm
Re: Perspective
Anekantavada is, without a doubt, the only correct view.gad rgyangs wrote:What I am suggesting with my doodle is more like Perspectivism or Anekāntavāda
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
Re: Perspective
dzogchungpa wrote:Anekantavada is, without a doubt, the only correct view.gad rgyangs wrote:What I am suggesting with my doodle is more like Perspectivism or Anekāntavāda
Re: Perspective
Eel wriggling, in other words, like Sanjaya Bellaputtha.gad rgyangs wrote:there is a fundamental difference between saying that all religions are expressing the same truth, and saying that all human conceptual systems (religious as well as secular science and philosophy) are inherently limited, metaphorical attempts to describe something that is beyond categories and definitions. Perennialism is always couched in language like "all religions are one" and emphasizes similarities among religions and so-called mystical experiences. What I am suggesting with my doodle is more like Perspectivism or AnekāntavādaMalcolm wrote: No, perennialism states that all religions are partial revelations if a universal truth, or reality.
- gad rgyangs
- Posts: 1142
- Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 4:53 pm
Re: Perspective
one person's eel wriggling is another person's intellectual honesty.Malcolm wrote: Eel wriggling, in other words, like Sanjaya Bellaputtha.
Thoroughly tame your own mind.
This is (possibly) the teaching of Buddha.
"I must finally conclude that this proposition, I am, I exist, is necessarily true whenever it is put forward by me or conceived in my mind."
- Descartes, 2nd Meditation 25
This is (possibly) the teaching of Buddha.
"I must finally conclude that this proposition, I am, I exist, is necessarily true whenever it is put forward by me or conceived in my mind."
- Descartes, 2nd Meditation 25
Re: Perspective
gad rgyangs wrote:one person's eel wriggling is another person's intellectual honesty.Malcolm wrote: Eel wriggling, in other words, like Sanjaya Bellaputtha.
Yes, it is good to be honest about one's views, even if it amounts to eel wriggling.
That said, I go by the dictum uttered by Āryadeva, realization proceeds from view. And of course the basis of the Buddhist path is samyakdṛṣtī as you know.
Last edited by Malcolm on Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.