Search found 441 matches

by michaelb
Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:57 pm
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Guru Rinpoche As...
Replies: 211
Views: 6678

Re: Guru Rinpoche As...

The earliest independent sadhana I know of is in the Drigung Yangzab, which again has no mention of a tigress as a yum. Yangzab was revealed in the first half of the 16th century. yes, that's the earliest i could find as well. Sadly, Lho Ontul Rinpoche was busy when i requested it. I'm actually sur...
by michaelb
Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:23 pm
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Guru Rinpoche As...
Replies: 211
Views: 6678

Re: Guru Rinpoche As...

The fact that you personally express ChNN's transmission as 'problematic', doubt its veracity, advise others to treat it with caution, not to see it as a matter of trust, etc etc, whilst weirdly claiming not to do so, is the problem here. If you have received that empowerment from that 'someone who...
by michaelb
Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:17 am
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Guru Rinpoche As...
Replies: 211
Views: 6678

Re: Guru Rinpoche As...

If you receive a transmission from a Guru and then doubt its veracity, advise others to treat it with caution, to abandon trust, and not bother performing the sadhana as transmitted, then what exactly do you have apart from a breach of samaya? I quoted the clear advice of ChNN on such things and ot...
by michaelb
Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:57 am
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Guru Rinpoche As...
Replies: 211
Views: 6678

Re: Guru Rinpoche As...

what was the book? The book I have as a source from 2012 is Teachings on the Practice of Dorje Trolod (p.26) : Sorry, i was asking for the Ngakpa Chogyam book. Be interesting to see another Ati Muwer account but you can never be sure where he gets his info from. Interestingly, the translation of th...
by michaelb
Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:24 am
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Guru Rinpoche As...
Replies: 211
Views: 6678

Re: Guru Rinpoche As...

Overall however, the liberation consort is generally identified as Ekajati, and as in the Bio of Tsogyal, Tsogyal is identified as Ekajati, while the tigress is Kyidron. However, as I specified before, this identification arrives in a terma of the later period, and it seems that it spread widely, s...
by michaelb
Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:47 am
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Guru Rinpoche As...
Replies: 211
Views: 6678

Re: Guru Rinpoche As...

the first time i've read Ati Muwer as the tigress is from a book from 1986. i thought this teaching came from the Jangter, or Dudjom tradition, because Doc ngakpa chogyam Togden was at this time more connected with Chime Rigdzin Rinp. and the Dudjom lineage... :thinking: afaik ChNN taught Dorje Dro...
by michaelb
Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:26 am
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Guru Rinpoche As...
Replies: 211
Views: 6678

Re: Guru Rinpoche As...

That was in answer to my question, since people seem to be most obsessed about Ati Muwer being either Buddhist or later Bon and seemed not to have considered Zhang Zhung at all. For Drolo to interact with an ancient Zhang Zhung figure in this way makes sense. So, maybe if you want a textual referen...
by michaelb
Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:46 pm
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Guru Rinpoche As...
Replies: 211
Views: 6678

Re: Guru Rinpoche As...

ChNN was referring to earlier historical sources he had available to him that are now obscure, since as you mention, it seems no one asked him for a source, including myself. Just to add, these historical sources couldn't be too old or obscure, not, for example, referring back to pre-Buddhist deiti...
by michaelb
Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:08 pm
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Guru Rinpoche As...
Replies: 211
Views: 6678

Re: Guru Rinpoche As...

Yes,in his Drollo ter cycle, the medium length sadhana refers to the tigress as the sbyor yum, "the consort for union," who is a passionate (ngar ma) bengal tigress (rgya stag). In another place, a long praise, the tigress is referred to as the "sgrol yum," the consort for liberation" who is a bril...
by michaelb
Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:51 pm
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Guru Rinpoche As...
Replies: 211
Views: 6678

Re: Guru Rinpoche As...

I think the most likely explanation is that the legend of Khyidron being the consort is quite late (I can find no reference to it earlier than the Taksham bio of Tsogyal -- it is not mentioned in any earlier bio of Tsogyal-- I looked), and that ChNN was referring to earlier historical sources he ha...
by michaelb
Mon Oct 22, 2018 4:19 pm
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Guru Rinpoche As...
Replies: 211
Views: 6678

Re: Guru Rinpoche As...

Adzom Drukpa calls the tigress the consort. I refer you back to Malcolm's earlier request: ''I have seen no actual text from a terma that actually states this identification of the tigress as a consort of Guru Rinpoche. So I am going to hold you to your own standard. Show us the text. '' I was simp...
by michaelb
Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:36 am
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Guru Rinpoche As...
Replies: 211
Views: 6678

Re: Guru Rinpoche As...

Yet seemingly you have equally no scriptural basis for the other description relating to riding a consort. Why is this, then, not also questionable and unreliable or innovative (a vague way of saying 'made up')? Adzom Drukpa calls the tigress the consort. I'm really confused as to what you are sayi...
by michaelb
Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:12 am
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Guru Rinpoche As...
Replies: 211
Views: 6678

Re: Guru Rinpoche As...

Most terma traditions say that the tigress is female and one of the transformed consorts of Guru Rinpoche (usually Tashi Chidren as she has a Bhutan connection... This is not certain. I have read many Drollo cycles. Actually, I have never seen any Drollo cycle explicitly identify the nature of the ...
by michaelb
Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:37 pm
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Guru Rinpoche As...
Replies: 211
Views: 6678

Re: Guru Rinpoche As...

When we are considering Vajrayana and a terton, who is also seen as Adzom Drugpa, explains a visualisation from that source, it is perhaps unwise to say his teachings should be treated with care and that such things are not a matter of trust........and instead place trust in a 'textual source' rath...
by michaelb
Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:24 pm
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Guru Rinpoche As...
Replies: 211
Views: 6678

Re: Guru Rinpoche As...

Many of us can see a light. Different candles lit at different times in different places by different people. You seem somehow desperate to conflate and meld them as if it were in some way possible or desirable. Bon people in this discussion seem desperate to play along, as if you are agreeing with...
by michaelb
Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:37 am
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Guru Rinpoche As...
Replies: 211
Views: 6678

Re: Guru Rinpoche As...

kalden yungdrung wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:13 am
Must say your Knowledge and Wisdom are remarkable and you have shed light here into the darkness.
I agree fully with your opinions and thank you very much that you shared your Wisdom with us.
At last, somebody sees the light.
:anjali:
by michaelb
Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:10 am
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Guru Rinpoche As...
Replies: 211
Views: 6678

Re: Guru Rinpoche As...

Crazywisdom wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:59 am
As if it even matters.
If it matters so little to you, why give so much energy to it? That's actually quite weird.
by michaelb
Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:48 am
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Guru Rinpoche As...
Replies: 211
Views: 6678

Re: Guru Rinpoche As...

I’ve read the whole thing— there is no mention of such an identification. In any case, ChNN has far greater mastery of Tibetan History and literature than any other Tibetan of his generation. It goes without saying then that his expertise in these far outstrips yours or mine. So, if he asserts that...
by michaelb
Sun Oct 21, 2018 2:02 am
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Guru Rinpoche As...
Replies: 211
Views: 6678

Re: Guru Rinpoche As...

Total success. ChNN always gave transmissions exactly as he got them. So if you found a contradiction in Adzom’s writings, now Is the time to put up or shut up. Why? The onus is on you because you raised the issue. Everyone else trusts their teacher. It is not about trust or faith or whatever. It i...
by michaelb
Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:08 pm
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Guru Rinpoche As...
Replies: 211
Views: 6678

Re: Guru Rinpoche As...

Crazywisdom wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:07 pm
michaelb wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:57 pm
Crazywisdom wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:54 pm
ChNN Drolod was a terma from Adzom Drugpa. So different terma have different background narratives.
please show me where Adzom Drukpa said ANYTHING like the tigress is Ati Muwer.
ChNN tells the story in his transmissions. Show me where it’s contradicted.
LOL. Nice try. :rolling:

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