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by krodha
Sat May 26, 2018 7:04 am
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?
Replies: 437
Views: 9470

Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?

What a shitshow. Anyways, I highly recommend that those of you who are conflating tirthika views with dzogchen to please read The Mind Beyond Papers by Elias Capriles as he succinctly and painstakingly details out the differences of views and results. Most gnostic and advaita vedanta "realizations"...
by krodha
Fri May 25, 2018 10:52 pm
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?
Replies: 437
Views: 9470

Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?

dzogchungpa wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 10:23 pm
krodha wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 9:26 pm
Just doesn't add up fellas...
With all due respect, fella, I don't give a flying f*&k about what you think does or doesn't add up.
You should declare this loudly to all the kids when you conclude your magic performances.
by krodha
Fri May 25, 2018 10:45 pm
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?
Replies: 437
Views: 9470

Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?

Does this then mean there are countless gods, as the individual natures of countless sentient being's minds, that do not actually create anything? That would be the consequence. Why call it a god at that point? I don't really know. I have my guesses but don't intend to pollute this forum with them....
by krodha
Fri May 25, 2018 10:01 pm
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?
Replies: 437
Views: 9470

Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?

Just doesn't add up fellas... especially when masters such as Norbu Rinpoche and Yongdzin Rinpoche say different. The latter states you break samaya holding this view. I don't know exactly how to reconcile it, but it doesn't bother me. The "all-creating king" is a literary device pointing at your o...
by krodha
Fri May 25, 2018 9:39 pm
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?
Replies: 437
Views: 9470

Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?

To add, Malcolm pointed out to me the other weekend in Santa Fe, which was a wonderful event by the way, that the Rig pa rang shar also states that tirthika non-dual views are untenable in the context of Dzogchen. Not to mention the fact that the same text rejects 360 different views, the teachings ...
by krodha
Fri May 25, 2018 9:26 pm
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?
Replies: 437
Views: 9470

Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?

Spelare: For what it's worth, my own guru (Dzogchen Ponlop Rinpoche) made it abundantly clear that the concept of God I learned from Vedanta is exactly the right way of looking at things (and the right direction in which to pray) -- as long as it's understood that this "God" is inside, not outside....
by krodha
Fri May 25, 2018 7:38 pm
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?
Replies: 437
Views: 9470

Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?

Out of curiosity, how do the pro-syncretic individuals contributing to this thread propose to synthesize whatever form of Christianity you are championing with a system such as Dzogchen? ChNN: Most Westerners receive a Christian education and in the Christian tradition God is very diffused. God is ...
by krodha
Fri May 25, 2018 6:55 pm
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?
Replies: 437
Views: 9470

Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?

Out of curiosity, how do the pro-syncretic individuals contributing to this thread propose to synthesize whatever form of Christianity you are championing with a system such as Dzogchen? How are the two similar in terms of the principles they champion? No entity or principle survives the path of Dzo...
by krodha
Fri May 25, 2018 5:12 pm
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?
Replies: 437
Views: 9470

Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?

Disparaging refers to pointing out the faults of these religions to their followers, being contemptuous or offensive. It does not mean one should not see their errors. In this case even bringing up disparaging other religions is completely out of place as this is a Buddhist forum. Actually, what I ...
by krodha
Fri May 25, 2018 5:14 am
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?
Replies: 437
Views: 9470

Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?

At what stage does fascination with rugby or card games perish? Can't we just find things intrinsically interesting? Calvinist theology is fascinating. I know it pretty well, and also that it's not going to save me. But that allows me to enjoy it more, not less. If you know it won't save you then y...
by krodha
Fri May 25, 2018 4:42 am
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?
Replies: 437
Views: 9470

Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?

:heart: Fascination with tirthika tenet systems, beyond the pale of surface level interest, perishes at the bee stage. As a bee seeks nectar from all kinds of flowers, seek teachings everywhere. Like a deer that finds a quiet place to graze, seek seclusion to digest all you have gathered. Like a li...
by krodha
Fri May 25, 2018 4:17 am
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?
Replies: 437
Views: 9470

Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?

As a bee seeks nectar from all kinds of flowers, seek teachings everywhere. Like a deer that finds a quiet place to graze, seek seclusion to digest all you have gathered. Like a lion, live completely free of all fear. And, finally, like a madman, beyond all limits, go wherever you please. :heart: F...
by krodha
Fri May 25, 2018 4:14 am
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?
Replies: 437
Views: 9470

Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?

They proceed on an empirical basis, observing their own experience carefully. What they certainly don't do is memorize a single recipe book and get frustrated if they encounter a working situation that doesn't conform exactly to what they prepared for. They are able to work with circumstances. Gene...
by krodha
Thu May 24, 2018 4:54 am
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?
Replies: 437
Views: 9470

Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?

So, in a way, this answers the question of what ChNN was doing talking about God and Jesus. He's in good company when we look at what Buddhist tantrikas did from early on. What are you under the impression that the Buddhist tantrikas did early on? In that sense, what he said is not innovative, but ...
by krodha
Thu May 24, 2018 4:41 am
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?
Replies: 437
Views: 9470

Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?

My view is that God has never been a separate, transcendent entity. But that he was created by us as a projection out of ourselves, into the sky, of what is actually entirely innate to us. It is a kind of category error, yes, though one that has given rise to fascinating cultural permutations. I st...
by krodha
Thu May 24, 2018 2:38 am
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?
Replies: 437
Views: 9470

Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?

liuzg150181 wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 2:36 am
Norwegian wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 9:44 pm
Or as the great Dharmakirti put it, on the belief in God: "[It's] the mark of the crass stupidity of witless men."
Dharmakirti is the Richard Darwins of Buddhism? :tongue:
*Dawkins
by krodha
Thu May 24, 2018 1:34 am
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?
Replies: 437
Views: 9470

Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?

Indeed, that is the intent. However, much of the language of Kunjed Gyalpo sounds like it could have been borrowed from a Hindu scripture Many Buddhists texts use subversive rhetoric. The Kun byed rgyal po was not novel in that regard. and not only the title. Do we know that this deiform language w...
by krodha
Thu May 24, 2018 12:10 am
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?
Replies: 437
Views: 9470

Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?

So, how would these great scholars of pramāṇa regard the metaphorical use of phrases like "all-creating king" in Dzogchen tantras? I'm curious if anyone knows how such language was formally justified in a historical Buddhist context, either Indian or Tibetan. Vasubandhu and Dharmakīrti were Yogācār...
by krodha
Wed May 23, 2018 11:48 pm
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?
Replies: 437
Views: 9470

Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?

Here is Vasubandhu's critique, from his Abhidharmakosabhasyam: All the dharmas that arise arise by reason of the five causes and the four conditions that we have just explained. The world does not proceed from a single cause that is called God, or Purusa, or Pradhana, or any other name. How do you p...
by krodha
Wed May 23, 2018 11:36 pm
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?
Replies: 437
Views: 9470

Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?

Or as the great Dharmakirti put it, on the belief in God: " [It's] the mark of the crass stupidity of witless men. " I believe Dharmakīrti made such remarks in the context of critiquing Śaiva tantra. Had he known of Buddhist tantric practice, he would likely have viewed it as a corruption of Buddhi...