Search found 252 matches

by Jyoti
Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:52 am
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Yogacara and dzogchen
Replies: 394
Views: 28031

Re: Is Dzogchen really beyond cause and effect?

This is a non-argument, it's an opinion, a belieft of a non dzogchen practitioner ... so listen: "I tell you" once more, for your knowledge and possibly understanding, "in Dzogchen there is no necessity to know the dharma, the three natures, the two truths, trikaya Simply knowing the body is not dz...
by Jyoti
Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:59 am
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Yogacara and dzogchen
Replies: 394
Views: 28031

Re: Is Dzogchen really beyond cause and effect?

Jyoti, in Dzogchen there is no necessity to know the dharma, the three natures, the two truths, trikaya, etc. Ch'an said the same thing and the result is the rising number of people who assert there is no consequence of karma, or straying to the extreme of dropping all, attachment to no-thought or ...
by Jyoti
Wed Sep 26, 2012 4:57 am
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Yogacara and dzogchen
Replies: 394
Views: 28031

Re: Is Dzogchen really beyond cause and effect?

It would be more accurate to say that Dzogchen finds the doctrine of the dependent nature faulty. The fault for which the yogacara school is criticized is the assertion the dependent nature is ultimate. The dependent arising nature (依他起性 paratantra-svabhāva) is not considered the same as the absolu...
by Jyoti
Wed Sep 26, 2012 3:31 am
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Yogacara and dzogchen
Replies: 394
Views: 28031

Re: Yogacara and dzogchen

Mipham claims that the ultimate is not empty of being the ultimate, he does however deny that it has a truly established permanent existence. Mipham is being careful with the word 'existence' since he is discussing with the dialectic tradition that is sensitive to such extreme. However, the passage...
by Jyoti
Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:06 pm
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Yogacara and dzogchen
Replies: 394
Views: 28031

Re: Is Dzogchen really beyond cause and effect?

Dzogchen does not even bother considering them separately but rather presents them at all times as inseparable as water and its wetness. Body, form and means are not separate, but without knowing their differences, it is impossible to know the dharma, the three natures, the two truths, trikaya, etc...
by Jyoti
Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:05 am
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Yogacara and dzogchen
Replies: 394
Views: 28031

Re: Yogacara and dzogchen

The only dichotomy dzogchen employs is delusion and wisdom. There is no such dichotomy in dzogchen, yogacara or any definitive teaching, as dichotomy does not apply in term of opposites, but the speculation of the body as two. Nonduality literally refers to not-two, not about any opposites or extre...
by Jyoti
Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:51 am
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Is Dzogchen really beyond cause and effect?
Replies: 114
Views: 13547

Re: Is Dzogchen really beyond cause and effect?

Whether in Dzogchen or common mahayana, only the body (ground) is beyond cause and effect, since both the perfuming (subject) and perfumed (object) are unrelated to it. However, the bodhi is not on the side of the body but on the side of means (jnana), and it is responsive to the perfuming (subject)...
by Jyoti
Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:49 pm
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Yogacara and dzogchen
Replies: 394
Views: 28031

Re: Yogacara and dzogchen

I didn't mention Dzogchen. I know, I was refering to Andrew who associate the 'dropping all' to dzogchen. "All dharmas are empty" is from the Heart sutra. You seem to have misunderstood Nagarjuna when he says that emptiness is itself empty. When refering anything from the sutra of the middle turnin...
by Jyoti
Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:10 am
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Yogacara and dzogchen
Replies: 394
Views: 28031

Re: Yogacara and dzogchen

Jyoti. As I have mentioned you are cooking a soup following a recipe. And in the final analysis you drop the intellect and go with the consequences of having a teacher. This is how it works. Any debate is essentially meaningless in this context. Your soup tastes as you think it should. The taste on...
by Jyoti
Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:08 am
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Yogacara and dzogchen
Replies: 394
Views: 28031

Re: Yogacara and dzogchen

Extremes such as Dharmakaya being truly existent? Free from extremes refer only to the means, whereas the body exists without extreme since its opposite body of non-existent does not exist. In the realm of nonduality, the concept of extreme does not apply, thus the body is originally free from extr...
by Jyoti
Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:44 am
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Yogacara and dzogchen
Replies: 394
Views: 28031

Re: Yogacara and dzogchen

You agreed with all these words but actually these words don't have any meaning. They are just garbage words. What you get from a teacher is a thousand times more meaningful. What you get from a teacher of Dzogchen is just....... Wonderful. This type of thinking is example of the mixing of the view...
by Jyoti
Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:16 pm
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Yogacara and dzogchen
Replies: 394
Views: 28031

Re: Yogacara and dzogchen

I don't have any soup anymore. Since you say you don't have soup anymore, then your soup is dzogchen, as stated in your previous post :"Then on the way to the table our guru knocks the soup out of our hands! This is dzogchen." However, if you were to say you have the soup, then indeed you have no m...
by Jyoti
Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:12 am
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Yogacara and dzogchen
Replies: 394
Views: 28031

Re: Yogacara and dzogchen

This soup that we are making needs a stock (yogachara). After the stock we add some garnish (Prasangika). Then we put the the soup in a nice bowl (Shentong). Then on the way to the table our guru knocks the soup out of our hands! This is dzogchen. These are just play of names which are without the ...
by Jyoti
Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:45 pm
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Yogacara and dzogchen
Replies: 394
Views: 28031

Re: Yogacara and dzogchen

So my assessment is this: If the 8th consciousness that you have mentioned is emptiness from which there is manifestation then the view of Yogacara and Dzogchen are equal. However there are caveats. This emptiness cannot have any time to it. Neither can it act as a cause. And neither can it have an...
by Jyoti
Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:35 pm
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Yogacara and dzogchen
Replies: 394
Views: 28031

Re: Yogacara and dzogchen

Ok good. So the sense in which Dzogchen and Yogacara are different depends on whether a genuine difference exists in terms of this understanding about the 8th consciousness. If they have the same view about this 8th consciousness then they would be saying the same thing. Is this a fair assessment? ...
by Jyoti
Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:43 pm
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Yogacara and dzogchen
Replies: 394
Views: 28031

Re: Yogacara and dzogchen

Andrew108 wrote: Ok so the 8th consciousness is emptiness which pervades the other consciousnesses. It is aware and can be known. It is permanent. Is this an accurate summary?
This is accurate.
by Jyoti
Thu Sep 20, 2012 6:12 am
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Yogacara and dzogchen
Replies: 394
Views: 28031

Re: Yogacara and dzogchen

The 8th consciousness which you say is permanent is also empty right? It is not empty (absolute void) but emptiness (empty-nature). This means that you can't perceive it with any of the other consciousnesses? It is not separated from other consciousnesses or perception from the 12 entrances, if one...
by Jyoti
Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:19 pm
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Yogacara and dzogchen
Replies: 394
Views: 28031

Re: Yogacara and dzogchen

Of course it is not. Rigpa has not to be stored :smile: BTW, with power (tsal) it is not so easy also. There is further a term called Rolpa, and also a term Gyem (ornaments) finally. I'm not sure how they should be written in wylie or tibetan. The ornaments (Gyem) are concepts, appearances and so o...
by Jyoti
Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:08 pm
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Yogacara and dzogchen
Replies: 394
Views: 28031

Re: Yogacara and dzogchen

The sutra in question is part of the Ratnakuta collection. We already discussed this -- we don't agree what "sutras of the definitive meaning" are and there is no agreement on this point between yogacara and madhyamaka either. There is no problem with disagreeing with a particular sutra, as there a...
by Jyoti
Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:40 pm
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Yogacara and dzogchen
Replies: 394
Views: 28031

Re: Yogacara and dzogchen

There is no cause but in therminology of dzogchen it is called: “Having broken” the “Youthful Vase Body” (Wyl. Gzhon-Nu Bum-sku) because of the Nature (Wyl. Rang bZhin) of the Pristine Awareness (Wyl. Rig-pa) arise the Appearances of the Basis (Wyl. Gzhi-sNang) with the Power (Wyl. Rtsal) to recogn...