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by Astus
Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:22 am
Forum: Academic Discussion
Topic: Academic critiques and slandering the dharma
Replies: 75
Views: 1477

Re: Academic critiques and slandering the dharma

I don't know why we would assume this to be true: the Zhenyan school was extremely influential in China during the Tang dynasty, and was transmitted to Japan as the Shingon school in the early 9th Century, where it also became influential. Different Ch'an and Zen lineages adopted various esoteric p...
by Astus
Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:18 am
Forum: Academic Discussion
Topic: Academic critiques and slandering the dharma
Replies: 75
Views: 1477

Re: Academic critiques and slandering the dharma

Ok, that’s quite semantic in this context, you can call it a transmission or simply a revealing or pointing out...doesn’t much matter in the context in which we are discussing it - the method of said revealing is part of the living lineage. But it's not a revelation, not a pointing out, but the cer...
by Astus
Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:15 am
Forum: Academic Discussion
Topic: Academic critiques and slandering the dharma
Replies: 75
Views: 1477

Re: Academic critiques and slandering the dharma

Malcolm wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 10:53 pm You asserted, “ The Zen lineage represents a series of awakened patriarchs who embody the totality of the Dharma.“
How is the above different from your assertion? The guru also embodies the lineage.
Right, in that sense, no difference.
by Astus
Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:49 am
Forum: Academic Discussion
Topic: Academic critiques and slandering the dharma
Replies: 75
Views: 1477

Re: Academic critiques and slandering the dharma

the need of a teacher to directly transmit a particular state to one "mind to mind" is. There is nothing actually transmitted, it is rather the confirmation, the certification of what one has already attained. A classic example of this is the story of Yongjia Xuanjue 永嘉玄覺 in chapter 7 of the Platfo...
by Astus
Fri Oct 23, 2020 10:13 pm
Forum: Academic Discussion
Topic: Academic critiques and slandering the dharma
Replies: 75
Views: 1477

Re: Academic critiques and slandering the dharma

Malcolm wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 10:04 pm Your guru represents the totality of the Dharna, as it is said, “the guru is the Buddha...the Dharma...and the Sangha.
How does that relate to Dharma transmission in Zen? It's not taught that one should cultivate that sort of devotion as in Vajrayana.
by Astus
Fri Oct 23, 2020 3:31 pm
Forum: Academic Discussion
Topic: Academic critiques and slandering the dharma
Replies: 75
Views: 1477

Re: Academic critiques and slandering the dharma

These three qualities are inherent in Vajrayana, for example, and also in Vinaya. Since Vajrayana couldn't have been much of a source for Zen, it is the Vinaya part that should be looked into. The Vinaya prescribes novice training, but after the first five years a monk is independent. Dharma transm...
by Astus
Fri Oct 23, 2020 11:04 am
Forum: Academic Discussion
Topic: Academic critiques and slandering the dharma
Replies: 75
Views: 1477

Re: Academic critiques and slandering the dharma

Sure, let me find my Official Vajrayana Lineage chart (tm), authorized and signed by Vajradhara. There are actually such official lineage certificates in Zen. Here's one place you can order the template for it: https://www.tera-mura.co.jp/ketimyaku.htm You can also watch a grand Dharma transmission...
by Astus
Fri Oct 23, 2020 10:57 am
Forum: Academic Discussion
Topic: Academic critiques and slandering the dharma
Replies: 75
Views: 1477

Re: Academic critiques and slandering the dharma

As you know, there has been massive destruction of texts in India and China. But the Theravada chronicle of ordinations is illustrative. There are a few examples of a lineage, although in two different senses. The Theravada account is about how the Dharma was faithfully transmitted, while in North ...
by Astus
Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:56 pm
Forum: Academic Discussion
Topic: Academic critiques and slandering the dharma
Replies: 75
Views: 1477

Re: Academic critiques and slandering the dharma

Well, If you read Tibetan, you could read Lama Dampa's Sonam Gyaltsen's record of lineages for Vinaya, Abhidharma, Pramana, Bodhisattva vows, etc., and so on, as well as lineages Vajrayāna lineages, you name it, Anything about a thousand years before him, just to see how the concept of Dharma linea...
by Astus
Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:20 pm
Forum: Academic Discussion
Topic: Academic critiques and slandering the dharma
Replies: 75
Views: 1477

Re: Academic critiques and slandering the dharma

The notion of lineage is found in all Buddhist schools in India, and was carried to Tibet, China, etc., from there. Inconsistencies in the record do not indicate that such lineages are fictions, the central point of your contention. If so, could you point to some sources specifying lineages of Dhar...
by Astus
Thu Oct 22, 2020 4:23 pm
Forum: Mahāyāna Buddhism
Topic: Saving all beings, ultimate or conventional goal?
Replies: 10
Views: 325

Re: Saving all beings, ultimate or conventional goal?

If no one can purify another, then how can you even save anyone? "Good friends, now that we have done the repentances, I will express for you the four great vows. You should all listen closely: the sentient beings of our own minds are limitless, and we vow to save them all. ... Good friends, why do...
by Astus
Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:47 am
Forum: Academic Discussion
Topic: Academic critiques and slandering the dharma
Replies: 75
Views: 1477

Re: Academic critiques and slandering the dharma

Malcolm wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:36 pmYou seem to miss the point of what such empiricism erases, how it salts the soil of tradition, out of which nothing will grow.
Please elaborate then.
by Astus
Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:46 am
Forum: Academic Discussion
Topic: Academic critiques and slandering the dharma
Replies: 75
Views: 1477

Re: Academic critiques and slandering the dharma

Monastic lineage lists certainly predate even these, that as my point. There are two early sources that served as the inspiration for the creation of special lineages: Huiyuan's (334–416) preface to the Dharmatrata-dhyana Sutra (Damoduoluo chan jing 達摩多羅禪經, English translation by Chan, Yiu-wing ) a...
by Astus
Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:32 pm
Forum: Academic Discussion
Topic: Academic critiques and slandering the dharma
Replies: 75
Views: 1477

Re: Academic critiques and slandering the dharma

Could you rephrase this, please? I can't tell if you're asserting that Soto Zen does or does not recognize textual materials. What I mean is to see the scriptures and texts as valid and 'sufficient' sources, for instance because that is what actually happened within the Soto tradition that was itse...
by Astus
Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:22 pm
Forum: Academic Discussion
Topic: Academic critiques and slandering the dharma
Replies: 75
Views: 1477

Re: Academic critiques and slandering the dharma

He too cannot really be hemmed in by history. If we think of everything in positivist terms, then religiosity has no meaning beyond surface levels and we turn our practice into a glorified Stephen Bachelor-esque secular Buddhism. The world that we are perceiving is a result of our karma, and it is ...
by Astus
Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:15 pm
Forum: Academic Discussion
Topic: Academic critiques and slandering the dharma
Replies: 75
Views: 1477

Re: Academic critiques and slandering the dharma

The notion of lineages was carried from India to Tibet, China, and Central Asia by subcontinental Buddhists, principally by Vajrayana practitioners such as Amoghavajra, but also monastic abbots. Śubhakarasiṃha arrived in Chang'an in 716 (Esoteric Buddhism and the Tantras in East Asia, p 340), a cou...
by Astus
Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:20 am
Forum: Academic Discussion
Topic: Academic critiques and slandering the dharma
Replies: 75
Views: 1477

Re: Academic critiques and slandering the dharma

When need to see, for instance, and come to terms with the fact that much of what is considered Theravāda is extremely late and is full of statements such as how the Buddha is non-human, and the earliest collections of manuscripts that we know of include Mahāyāna texts alongside Śrāvakayāna texts. ...
by Astus
Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:56 am
Forum: Academic Discussion
Topic: Academic critiques and slandering the dharma
Replies: 75
Views: 1477

Re: Academic critiques and slandering the dharma

Who says they are fictional? On what basis are these claims for the fictionality of Chan lineages made? What assumptions drive such claims of inauthenticity? From Jeff Shore , a Rinzai Zen teacher and a professor at Hanazono University: 'Why, and from where, did the lineage-transmission legend aris...
by Astus
Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:08 am
Forum: Academic Discussion
Topic: Academic critiques and slandering the dharma
Replies: 75
Views: 1477

Re: Academic critiques and slandering the dharma

Dogen wrote favorably about the Lotus Sutra. That Soto Zen takes Dogen as the standard source is itself a result of Menzan Zuiho's efforts, who based his reformation on the works of Dogen, that is, what is now understood as correct transmission is established on written sources, and not what was pa...
by Astus
Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:58 am
Forum: Academic Discussion
Topic: Academic critiques and slandering the dharma
Replies: 75
Views: 1477

Re: Academic critiques and slandering the dharma

You don't need to be a complete literalist either, but believing that the spiritual significance of your scriptures is basically bunk can't be good for one's practice. I don't think that the value of the scriptures depend on believing in their attribution to the historical person of Shakyamuni, the...

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