Search found 171 matches

by zengen
Wed Jun 01, 2016 8:31 pm
Forum: Ethical Conduct
Topic: Details on Stealing
Replies: 103
Views: 10986

Re: Details on Stealing

Example:

Chinese hackers broke into US government database, stole military information. By your definition, theft was not committed since nothing tangible was stolen.
by zengen
Wed Jun 01, 2016 8:28 pm
Forum: Ethical Conduct
Topic: Details on Stealing
Replies: 103
Views: 10986

Re: Details on Stealing

Stealing is done with the body. It necessarily involves an *object*. Not so. If you download a pirated copy of Microsoft Office for example, that is considered stealing. A video stream, torrent, etc. is not a physical object. There is simply no way to violate the second precept without depriving a ...
by zengen
Wed Jun 01, 2016 7:04 pm
Forum: Ethical Conduct
Topic: Details on Stealing
Replies: 103
Views: 10986

Re: Details on Stealing

Iconodule wrote: Hm, what about the turtle earning merit by accidentally circumambulating a stupa? Or is merit different from karma in this respect?
Good point. Can an animal create karma?
by zengen
Wed Jun 01, 2016 6:20 pm
Forum: Ethical Conduct
Topic: Details on Stealing
Replies: 103
Views: 10986

Re: Details on Stealing

But what do Mahayana texts say about this?
by zengen
Wed Jun 01, 2016 6:10 pm
Forum: Ethical Conduct
Topic: Details on Stealing
Replies: 103
Views: 10986

Re: Details on Stealing

Johnny Dangerous wrote: I do know though that karma is action driven by intention, and not by mistake.
Who said karma cannot be created by mistake?

If I'm a doctor and through negligence I make a mistake in prescribing the wrong medicine, the patient dies, I am not karmically responsible?
by zengen
Wed Jun 01, 2016 5:59 pm
Forum: Ethical Conduct
Topic: Details on Stealing
Replies: 103
Views: 10986

Re: Details on Stealing

Not for a Dharma practitioner who has taken the precepts, because in that case you are aware it is wrong livelihood to sell alcohol. For a non-practitioner, I'm not sure. Then by your reasoning, non-virtue is committed by a Dharma practitioner, but for a non-practitioner who is unaware, non-virtue ...
by zengen
Wed Jun 01, 2016 5:54 pm
Forum: Ethical Conduct
Topic: Details on Stealing
Replies: 103
Views: 10986

Re: Details on Stealing

Another example:

I open a shop that serves alcohol. My intention is not to harm others. My intention is to make money so I can support myself and my family. Is my deed pure?
by zengen
Wed Jun 01, 2016 5:47 pm
Forum: Ethical Conduct
Topic: Details on Stealing
Replies: 103
Views: 10986

Re: Details on Stealing

With all due respect, I don't think your understanding is correct. Intention does play a role in the heaviness of the karma.
by zengen
Wed Jun 01, 2016 5:44 pm
Forum: Ethical Conduct
Topic: Details on Stealing
Replies: 103
Views: 10986

Re: Details on Stealing

Say I'm a sales person. I'm not aware that my product is harmful to others, but I still sell it. By your reasoning, I did not create negative karma.
by zengen
Wed Jun 01, 2016 5:32 pm
Forum: Ethical Conduct
Topic: Details on Stealing
Replies: 103
Views: 10986

Re: Details on Stealing

So let say a person streams a movie illegally on some random website, without knowing that it is stealing and without the intention to steal, the person did not commit negative karma?
by zengen
Wed Jun 01, 2016 5:27 pm
Forum: Ethical Conduct
Topic: Details on Stealing
Replies: 103
Views: 10986

Re: Details on Stealing

Without intention, negative karma can still be created. That was my point. People reading your post will be misled into believing that no negative karma is created if a wrong deed is done without intention.
by zengen
Wed Jun 01, 2016 5:20 pm
Forum: Ethical Conduct
Topic: Details on Stealing
Replies: 103
Views: 10986

Re: Details on Stealing

ANd the authors can get them taken down..again though, you are still avoiding the point of whether or not it constitutes stealing according to the 2nd precept, and so far have no evidence whatsoever that it does. No, I don't accept your comparison of youtube to public library. People reading your p...
by zengen
Wed Jun 01, 2016 5:09 pm
Forum: Ethical Conduct
Topic: Details on Stealing
Replies: 103
Views: 10986

Re: Details on Stealing

Geez, learn some basic Dharma, if people aren't aware, then it isn't 'stealing' in the Second Precept sense, which requires volition. Let's not talk about violating precept. Just karma. So if I steal something without being aware of it, I did not commit negative karma? If I committed a wrong deed w...
by zengen
Wed Jun 01, 2016 4:50 pm
Forum: Ethical Conduct
Topic: Details on Stealing
Replies: 103
Views: 10986

Re: Details on Stealing

you are really just stalling because your argument makes no sense, and accuses people of breaking the Second Precept based on literally using a freely available service, the operation of which they have no real say over. You have so far not one good argument in favor of the idea that it is "stealin...
by zengen
Wed Jun 01, 2016 4:30 pm
Forum: Ethical Conduct
Topic: Details on Stealing
Replies: 103
Views: 10986

Re: Details on Stealing

Please pay attention to what I and others have metnioned multiple times: 1)copyrighted material can be removed from youtube, 2) many artists choose not to have it removed There are artists who aren't even aware that their works are posted on youtube, or other websites against their will. What can y...
by zengen
Wed Jun 01, 2016 4:25 pm
Forum: Ethical Conduct
Topic: Details on Stealing
Replies: 103
Views: 10986

Re: Details on Stealing

That is ludicrous. If I never intend to buy a book and copy it instead then it does not deprive the author of any opportunity as they would never get any money from me anyway. If you copy the whole book so you don't have to buy the book, that is stealing. Your intention is to not pay for the book, ...
by zengen
Tue May 31, 2016 11:58 pm
Forum: Ethical Conduct
Topic: Details on Stealing
Replies: 103
Views: 10986

Re: Details on Stealing

The key here is "permission". Libraries have the permission of the authors to lend their books. Youtube in many cases do not the permission to distribute the intellectual properties.

Therefore, you cannot compare libraries with youtube. It's such an absurd comparison.
by zengen
Tue May 31, 2016 11:45 pm
Forum: Ethical Conduct
Topic: Details on Stealing
Replies: 103
Views: 10986

Re: Details on Stealing

No they don't, they purchase the books, they do not pay royalties..I'm not sure where you get your information: https://www.quora.com/How-does-a-library-pay-royalties-to-the-authors-of-all-the-books-on-its-shelves I can compare it because your problem seems to be that watching illegal material on y...
by zengen
Tue May 31, 2016 11:31 pm
Forum: Ethical Conduct
Topic: Details on Stealing
Replies: 103
Views: 10986

Re: Details on Stealing

Karma Dorje wrote:You cant deprive someone of something they do not possess. Future earnings are something that does not exist yet hence they can't be stolen.
You can deprive someone of the opportunity. That is still a wrong deed.
by zengen
Tue May 31, 2016 11:28 pm
Forum: Ethical Conduct
Topic: Details on Stealing
Replies: 103
Views: 10986

Re: Details on Stealing

How is it a different case exactly? Libraries pay only for the copies they own, they do not pay royalties or anything like that. So still, if you have this ethical problem with youtube use, you should have the same problem with use of libraries, as by your definition, they are depriving artists and...

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