Search found 1270 matches

by tobes
Fri Feb 17, 2023 3:42 am
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Because the Dharma cannot be owned, it cannot be sold
Replies: 174
Views: 6756

Re: Because the Dharma cannot be owned, it cannot be sold

I just cannot for the life me square danaparamita with market based exchanges. You don’t have to square anything. The two are totally unrelated. Dana is for your benefit. Paying fixed costs is to benefit others. You aren’t required to do either one. There’s plenty of free dharma in the world. Help ...
by tobes
Fri Feb 17, 2023 2:56 am
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Because the Dharma cannot be owned, it cannot be sold
Replies: 174
Views: 6756

Re: Because the Dharma cannot be owned, it cannot be sold

Tobes, Please explain again what you are trying to achieve with this thread. What is the actual discussion you would like to have if the answers given to you so far are off the mark? Are you saying that the contemporary worldwide monetary economy has adversely effected the Dharma and its teaching? ...
by tobes
Fri Feb 17, 2023 12:22 am
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Because the Dharma cannot be owned, it cannot be sold
Replies: 174
Views: 6756

Re: Because the Dharma cannot be owned, it cannot be sold

Tobes, Please explain again what you are trying to achieve with this thread. What is the actual discussion you would like to have if the answers given to you so far are off the mark? Are you saying that the contemporary worldwide monetary economy has adversely effected the Dharma and its teaching? ...
by tobes
Thu Feb 16, 2023 11:18 pm
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Because the Dharma cannot be owned, it cannot be sold
Replies: 174
Views: 6756

Re: Because the Dharma cannot be owned, it cannot be sold

Is this serious? Not eating? Sacrifces like this are good? Virgo Of course. And it is not just our monastics who are considered to accumulate (vast, uncountable) virtue in such ways. Think about the Mahayana precepts, Milarepa, Nyung Nyes etc Please don't turn this into an argument that I want all ...
by tobes
Thu Feb 16, 2023 5:12 am
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Because the Dharma cannot be owned, it cannot be sold
Replies: 174
Views: 6756

Re: Because the Dharma cannot be owned, it cannot be sold

There may be more sacrifices with this approach - I recall a story of Ajahn Brahm not eating for a few days because of some issue with alms round. I think it is better to err on this side. If one is teaching or practicing the Dharma sincerely, sacrifices like this are very good. Is this serious? No...
by tobes
Thu Feb 16, 2023 4:57 am
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Because the Dharma cannot be owned, it cannot be sold
Replies: 174
Views: 6756

Re: Because the Dharma cannot be owned, it cannot be sold

when individuals act out of self-interest, on either the supply or demand side of the equation, surplus value is created and everyone is better off. Ergo, it is always morally right to act out of self-interest because overall utility increases. 1.So, then that’s the exact opposite of what is taught...
by tobes
Wed Feb 15, 2023 11:28 pm
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Because the Dharma cannot be owned, it cannot be sold
Replies: 174
Views: 6756

Re: Because the Dharma cannot be owned, it cannot be sold

The point Smith making has not to do with selfishness, but rather, the division of labor, as he states just after the famous baker passage, Yes, I was just hoping Tobes would finally respond to this point. Virgo I have addressed this. Please read back. The point is not what Adam Smith wrote or beli...
by tobes
Wed Feb 15, 2023 3:49 am
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Because the Dharma cannot be owned, it cannot be sold
Replies: 174
Views: 6756

Re: Because the Dharma cannot be owned, it cannot be sold

Sorry I don't have the time at the moment to reply to every post, but the example of higher education is apt here. Of course it was never free, but the shift in the last few decades for a degree to become a pure commodity, teachers the supply side and students the demand side in a purely market sit...
by tobes
Wed Feb 15, 2023 2:02 am
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Because the Dharma cannot be owned, it cannot be sold
Replies: 174
Views: 6756

Re: Because the Dharma cannot be owned, it cannot be sold

If the topic is still compulsory fees vs. optional donations, then ‘free public education’ isn’t a very good example if it’s paid for with public funds. Paying taxes is mandatory. I think it still works. It is not perfectly analogous, but it works because in previous iterations of university educat...
by tobes
Wed Feb 15, 2023 1:53 am
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Because the Dharma cannot be owned, it cannot be sold
Replies: 174
Views: 6756

Re: Because the Dharma cannot be owned, it cannot be sold

The famous metaphor from Adam Smith - the baker and the person buying bread do not meet out benevolence; the meet on the basis of self-interest and both end up better off. The most misquoted passage of Smith ever. You must know that Smith’s main treatises was his Theory of Moral Sentiments: How sel...
by tobes
Wed Feb 15, 2023 12:15 am
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Because the Dharma cannot be owned, it cannot be sold
Replies: 174
Views: 6756

Re: Because the Dharma cannot be owned, it cannot be sold

Sorry I don't have the time at the moment to reply to every post, but the example of higher education is apt here. Of course it was never free, but the shift in the last few decades for a degree to become a pure commodity, teachers the supply side and students the demand side in a purely market situ...
by tobes
Tue Feb 14, 2023 5:07 am
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Because the Dharma cannot be owned, it cannot be sold
Replies: 174
Views: 6756

Re: Because the Dharma cannot be owned, it cannot be sold

Further material advances require much more careful thought - if a large and elaborate temple cannot be funded through dana etc, then perhaps it is better not to build it. We should never put the cart before the horse. Look at FPMT's material footprint - it is huge. They are building a massive stup...
by tobes
Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:54 am
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Because the Dharma cannot be owned, it cannot be sold
Replies: 174
Views: 6756

Re: Because the Dharma cannot be owned, it cannot be sold

Well the last thread was shut down because the poster used a real example; there are many to be found. I don’t think that was the motive. The reason was that the debate was going back and forth endlessly. The example was a dharma center that runs a large operation and does charge prices that a lot ...
by tobes
Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:42 am
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Because the Dharma cannot be owned, it cannot be sold
Replies: 174
Views: 6756

Re: Because the Dharma cannot be owned, it cannot be sold

I get this and I grant it. If there are costs they need to be met. If it is a retreat for example, and food, accommodation is required, then of course a fee is necessary. Likewise a Dharma teaching that is large and may require the hiring of a hall or something, of course a fee is the best approach...
by tobes
Tue Feb 14, 2023 1:29 am
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Because the Dharma cannot be owned, it cannot be sold
Replies: 174
Views: 6756

Re: Because the Dharma cannot be owned, it cannot be sold

Mainly I'm getting the sense of: I am so waaaay off I should be shut down. Why is this, I wonder? Because perhaps you are way off? Perhaps the problem you’re trying to solve really isn’t a problem at all? You’re overthinking this. Events have costs. Organizations have costs. Every dharma organizati...
by tobes
Tue Feb 14, 2023 12:36 am
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Because the Dharma cannot be owned, it cannot be sold
Replies: 174
Views: 6756

Re: Because the Dharma cannot be owned, it cannot be sold

Why the unwillingness, I wonder? I replied directly. Dana and compulsory fees are two different things. If you perceive that compulsory fees are undermining the intent of dana, because of issues having to do with market capitalism, then please cite examples. I also asked you, if there is no such th...
by tobes
Mon Feb 13, 2023 11:47 pm
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Because the Dharma cannot be owned, it cannot be sold
Replies: 174
Views: 6756

Re: Because the Dharma cannot be owned, it cannot be sold

How many times do I have to point out that I am not opposing genuine offerings, true dana etc; that I am defending these things as axiomatic, and that I recognise that retreats, teachings, publishing etc needs this support. It can't be dana if you have to give a prescribed amount, because your inten...
by tobes
Mon Feb 13, 2023 6:06 am
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Because the Dharma cannot be owned, it cannot be sold
Replies: 174
Views: 6756

Re: Because the Dharma cannot be owned, it cannot be sold

A common argument here seems to be: one's motivation for not paying for Dharma is stinginess, greediness or not valuing the Dharma, or valuing those who have put time and energy into cultivating the Dharma. But this flies in the face of all the traditions who have striven hard and made so many sacri...
by tobes
Mon Feb 13, 2023 6:02 am
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Because the Dharma cannot be owned, it cannot be sold
Replies: 174
Views: 6756

Re: Because the Dharma cannot be owned, it cannot be sold

- we have here a way which can undo the problem at its root. Personally, but not globally. Sure. But if we have a group of Dharma practitioners, perhaps crystalising around someone further on the path who acts as a teacher - then we have a group of individuals who are all undoing neoliberal intenti...
by tobes
Mon Feb 13, 2023 5:48 am
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Because the Dharma cannot be owned, it cannot be sold
Replies: 174
Views: 6756

Re: Because the Dharma cannot be owned, it cannot be sold

My point is really: if we're doing all this and then thinking 'yeah, but the relative world is real and we all gotto eat' then we are wrapped up in some ideology rather than practicing Dharma. Is starving an ideology? I think it's strange that you consider existing in the relative world separate fr...

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