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by Coëmgenu
Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:42 pm
Forum: Mahāyāna Buddhism
Topic: Why is consciousness seen as something impermanent?
Replies: 211
Views: 2347

Re: Why is consciousness seen as something impermanent?

Is the absence of X, whatever it be, usually considered a phenomena or mental object in its own right in any other context than nirvāṇa? Space? I suppose so. Sects that posit mind as an unconditioned dharma, is mind a dharma in these contexts as the absence of mind? How many others are there? I kno...
by Coëmgenu
Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:33 pm
Forum: Mahāyāna Buddhism
Topic: Why is consciousness seen as something impermanent?
Replies: 211
Views: 2347

Re: Why is consciousness seen as something impermanent?

So there's a sense in which Nirvana, the enlightened consciousness, is indeed 'extinguished' - but Nirvana is not simply 'non-being', which is nihilism. The Buddha has 'gone beyond' the cycle of birth-and-death, in other words, has relinquished all sense of self. I am also digging this. But I also ...
by Coëmgenu
Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:01 am
Forum: Mahāyāna Buddhism
Topic: Why is consciousness seen as something impermanent?
Replies: 211
Views: 2347

Re: Why is consciousness seen as something impermanent?

stevie wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:57 am
Coëmgenu wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:41 am
Madhyamaka can't stop this proliferator.
It can but it does not necessarily.
I don't think it can. Only moderators have such power!
:smile:
by Coëmgenu
Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:41 am
Forum: Mahāyāna Buddhism
Topic: Why is consciousness seen as something impermanent?
Replies: 211
Views: 2347

Re: Why is consciousness seen as something impermanent?

So there's a sense in which Nirvana, the enlightened consciousness, is indeed 'extinguished' - but Nirvana is not simply 'non-being', which is nihilism. The Buddha has 'gone beyond' the cycle of birth-and-death, in other words, has relinquished all sense of self. I am also digging this. But I also ...
by Coëmgenu
Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:15 am
Forum: Mahāyāna Buddhism
Topic: Why is consciousness seen as something impermanent?
Replies: 211
Views: 2347

Re: Why is consciousness seen as something impermanent?

//edit// -sorry, I meant Kaccayanagotta Sutta . It is one of the texts that is the origin of Madhyamika.// I suppose then, "Don't ask that, whether the Buddha is conscious, whether you are conscious, because you proliferated that which is unproliferated?" Madhyamaka has a wholesome ability to end n...
by Coëmgenu
Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:08 am
Forum: Mahāyāna Buddhism
Topic: Why is consciousness seen as something impermanent?
Replies: 211
Views: 2347

Re: Why is consciousness seen as something impermanent?

Neither am I. Was the Buddha conscious when he "said" that ignorance (skipping ahead a bit) --> consciousness? Was the Buddha ignorant? We know he can't be because he is supposed to be the opposite of that. If the Buddha has no mind, is he enlightened? You might look again the sutta that Johnny D l...
by Coëmgenu
Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:52 am
Forum: Mahāyāna Buddhism
Topic: Why is consciousness seen as something impermanent?
Replies: 211
Views: 2347

Re: Why is consciousness seen as something impermanent?

I think it's short for "something."
by Coëmgenu
Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:48 am
Forum: Mahāyāna Buddhism
Topic: Why is consciousness seen as something impermanent?
Replies: 211
Views: 2347

Re: Why is consciousness seen as something impermanent?

Neither am I.

Was the Buddha conscious when he "said" that ignorance (skipping ahead a bit) --> consciousness?

Was the Buddha ignorant? We know he can't be because he is supposed to be the opposite of that.

If the Buddha has no mind, is he enlightened?
by Coëmgenu
Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:42 am
Forum: Mahāyāna Buddhism
Topic: Why is consciousness seen as something impermanent?
Replies: 211
Views: 2347

Re: Why is consciousness seen as something impermanent?

stevie wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:37 am
Coëmgenu wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:26 am
Is consciousness always dependent on ignorance?
On what could a response to that question be based? Could it be based on what is other than consciousness?
I don't know... can it?

:spy: :sage:

Probably not, right?

:spy:
by Coëmgenu
Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:28 am
Forum: Mahāyāna Buddhism
Topic: Why is consciousness seen as something impermanent?
Replies: 211
Views: 2347

Re: Why is consciousness seen as something impermanent?

I guess my heretic could just ask "is the Buddha conscious?" to be more concise.
by Coëmgenu
Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:26 am
Forum: Mahāyāna Buddhism
Topic: Why is consciousness seen as something impermanent?
Replies: 211
Views: 2347

Re: Why is consciousness seen as something impermanent?

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn12/sn12.002.than.html Ah yes. The tricky links have come out. :spy: :sage: How do you interpret that passage with regards to what is above it? Consciousness depends on (afflictive and/or cognitive) ignorance and (afflictive and/or cognitive) ignorance d...
by Coëmgenu
Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:10 am
Forum: Mahāyāna Buddhism
Topic: Why is consciousness seen as something impermanent?
Replies: 211
Views: 2347

Re: Why is consciousness seen as something impermanent?

The unenlightened worldling might say that observing anything is observing observation. We can't observe things that don't exist, so if a tree does not exist, we don't observe it. Similarly, if nothing exists, there is no observation. So yes, the unenlightened worldling might agree that observation...
by Coëmgenu
Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:45 am
Forum: Mahāyāna Buddhism
Topic: Why is consciousness seen as something impermanent?
Replies: 211
Views: 2347

Re: Why is consciousness seen as something impermanent?

The unenlightened worldling might say that observing anything is observing observation. We can't observe things that don't exist, so if a tree does not exist, we don't observe it. Similarly, if nothing exists, there is no observation. So yes, the unenlightened worldling might agree that observation ...
by Coëmgenu
Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:56 am
Forum: Mahāyāna Buddhism
Topic: Why is consciousness seen as something impermanent?
Replies: 211
Views: 2347

Re: Why is consciousness seen as something impermanent?

That's the whole thing about this debate, it is not (from a particular Buddhist standpoint at least) a question of having the right ideas and concepts, but simply about seeing what happens when you try to find the observer and identify it's possible characteristics. If we're being the tīrthikasya a...
by Coëmgenu
Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:12 am
Forum: Mahāyāna Buddhism
Topic: Why is consciousness seen as something impermanent?
Replies: 211
Views: 2347

Re: Why is consciousness seen as something impermanent?

That's the whole thing about this debate, it is not (from a particular Buddhist standpoint at least) a question of having the right ideas and concepts, but simply about seeing what happens when you try to find the observer and identify it's possible characteristics. If we're being the tīrthikasya a...
by Coëmgenu
Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:08 pm
Forum: Mahāyāna Buddhism
Topic: Why is consciousness seen as something impermanent?
Replies: 211
Views: 2347

Re: Why is consciousness seen as something impermanent?

It's clear that there isn't a clear answer if we go from scriptural knowledge. There are clearly Buddhist texts that treat the mind as one of the various impermanences. There are also clearly Buddhist texts which treat the mind as an eternal splendid unchanging continuüm. There are even Buddhists te...
by Coëmgenu
Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:11 pm
Forum: Chan
Topic: If all is mind then how is Zen not monistic?
Replies: 22
Views: 430

Re: If all is mind then how is Zen not monistic?

I've had it explained to me by highly intelligent and reliable individuals that Zen is not monistic It depends whether or not they observe the Dharmaguptaka four-part vinaya. If they do, they are monastic. Do ALL Zen sects not follow vinaya, but follow bodhisattva precepts instead? I know that vina...
by Coëmgenu
Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:12 am
Forum: Chan
Topic: If all is mind then how is Zen not monistic?
Replies: 22
Views: 430

Re: If all is mind then how is Zen not monistic?

I've had it explained to me by highly intelligent and reliable individuals that Zen is not monistic It depends whether or not they observe the Dharmaguptaka four-part vinaya. If they do, they are monastic. Do ALL Zen sects not follow vinaya, but follow bodhisattva precepts instead? I know that vina...
by Coëmgenu
Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:47 am
Forum: Mahāyāna Buddhism
Topic: Why is consciousness seen as something impermanent?
Replies: 211
Views: 2347

Re: Why is consciousness seen as something impermanent?

84,000 dharma doors, right? I hope this aside about the numerology of the 84,000 dharma doors is not unwelcome: 84,000 is not just a randomly picked number. It’s a higher expression of the number four. Loosely, it’s 4 times a thousand, doubled, and then some. So it’s an abundance, a plenitude, a un...
by Coëmgenu
Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:20 pm
Forum: Mahāyāna Buddhism
Topic: Why is consciousness seen as something impermanent?
Replies: 211
Views: 2347

Re: Why is consciousness seen as something impermanent?

[...] Dīghanikāya 1[...]: [...] This is the fourth ground on which some ascetics and brahmins rely to assert that the self and the cosmos are partially eternal. [/size] I wonder how this related with venerable Nāgārjuna's proposal: Between nirvāna and this world there is not even slight disparity. ...

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