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by krodha
Fri May 25, 2018 4:14 am
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?
Replies: 443
Views: 12400

Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?

They proceed on an empirical basis, observing their own experience carefully. What they certainly don't do is memorize a single recipe book and get frustrated if they encounter a working situation that doesn't conform exactly to what they prepared for. They are able to work with circumstances. Gene...
by krodha
Thu May 24, 2018 4:54 am
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?
Replies: 443
Views: 12400

Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?

So, in a way, this answers the question of what ChNN was doing talking about God and Jesus. He's in good company when we look at what Buddhist tantrikas did from early on. What are you under the impression that the Buddhist tantrikas did early on? In that sense, what he said is not innovative, but ...
by krodha
Thu May 24, 2018 4:41 am
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?
Replies: 443
Views: 12400

Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?

My view is that God has never been a separate, transcendent entity. But that he was created by us as a projection out of ourselves, into the sky, of what is actually entirely innate to us. It is a kind of category error, yes, though one that has given rise to fascinating cultural permutations. I st...
by krodha
Thu May 24, 2018 2:38 am
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?
Replies: 443
Views: 12400

Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?

liuzg150181 wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 2:36 am
Norwegian wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 9:44 pm
Or as the great Dharmakirti put it, on the belief in God: "[It's] the mark of the crass stupidity of witless men."
Dharmakirti is the Richard Darwins of Buddhism? :tongue:
*Dawkins
by krodha
Thu May 24, 2018 1:34 am
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?
Replies: 443
Views: 12400

Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?

Indeed, that is the intent. However, much of the language of Kunjed Gyalpo sounds like it could have been borrowed from a Hindu scripture Many Buddhists texts use subversive rhetoric. The Kun byed rgyal po was not novel in that regard. and not only the title. Do we know that this deiform language w...
by krodha
Thu May 24, 2018 12:10 am
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?
Replies: 443
Views: 12400

Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?

So, how would these great scholars of pramāṇa regard the metaphorical use of phrases like "all-creating king" in Dzogchen tantras? I'm curious if anyone knows how such language was formally justified in a historical Buddhist context, either Indian or Tibetan. Vasubandhu and Dharmakīrti were Yogācār...
by krodha
Wed May 23, 2018 11:48 pm
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?
Replies: 443
Views: 12400

Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?

Here is Vasubandhu's critique, from his Abhidharmakosabhasyam: All the dharmas that arise arise by reason of the five causes and the four conditions that we have just explained. The world does not proceed from a single cause that is called God, or Purusa, or Pradhana, or any other name. How do you p...
by krodha
Wed May 23, 2018 11:36 pm
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?
Replies: 443
Views: 12400

Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?

Or as the great Dharmakirti put it, on the belief in God: " [It's] the mark of the crass stupidity of witless men. " I believe Dharmakīrti made such remarks in the context of critiquing Śaiva tantra. Had he known of Buddhist tantric practice, he would likely have viewed it as a corruption of Buddhi...
by krodha
Wed May 23, 2018 11:05 pm
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?
Replies: 443
Views: 12400

Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?

Do Theravada and Mahayana understand dependent origination same way? No. Theravadins use it to understand the emptiness of persons. Mahayanists use it to understand the emptiness of all phenomena. Tantrikas, of course, are understanding it the same way, but also going beyond just emptiness alone. K...
by krodha
Wed May 23, 2018 8:12 pm
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?
Replies: 443
Views: 12400

Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?

Kunga Lhadzom wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 7:10 pm
But "God" could of ALWAYS BEEN HERE TOO...NO BEGINNING OR ENDING TO "HIM"....and we are Dependant Originally on this Creator Being.....maybe that's what ChNN means ?( And that's where the AdiBuddha (self created) comes in ?)
Definitely not.
by krodha
Wed May 23, 2018 5:46 am
Forum: Lounge
Topic: Guess who said this?
Replies: 29
Views: 792

Re: Guess who said this?

Ah yes, another www. jesuswheel .net moment.
by krodha
Tue May 22, 2018 11:07 pm
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?
Replies: 443
Views: 12400

Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?

I don't mean that that the initial awakening experience is all they need, but that in each of us are all the resources and capacity we need to develop that initial glimpse into full and sustained realization. Whether we figure that out is another matter. Obviously, the overwhelming majority who suc...
by krodha
Tue May 22, 2018 11:01 pm
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?
Replies: 443
Views: 12400

Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?

But is it not equally true that our experiential insights may lead us to revise or abandon previously held views? Sometimes, sure. However there are also cases where the paths we become involved with either (i) experientially cultivate the very assumptions we enter them with, or (ii) experientially...
by krodha
Tue May 22, 2018 10:46 pm
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?
Replies: 443
Views: 12400

Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?

And suppose a formally Christian, Jewish, or whatever person does study Buddhist philosophy and then has a spontaneous realization of emptiness in their direct experience. Why should they then go to the trouble of formal refuge? Why need they affiliate or disaffiliate from any institution? They hav...
by krodha
Tue May 22, 2018 10:39 pm
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?
Replies: 443
Views: 12400

Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?

So, from what I understand, wrong view is a barrier to realization, and this is why non-Buddhists are said to be out of luck. However, is it not characteristic of human experience that view, like all thoughts/concepts/mental stances, is intermittent? We may have a deeper felt sense of that wrong vi...
by krodha
Sat May 19, 2018 9:00 pm
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?
Replies: 443
Views: 12400

Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?

Virgo wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 8:34 pm
dzogchungpa wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 8:32 pm

Indeed. This thread, however, appears to be immortal.
So it appears.

Kevin...
Not immortal, but definitely reborn. Here is its previous incarnation:

viewtopic.php?f=36&t=26425
by krodha
Sat May 19, 2018 3:25 am
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?
Replies: 443
Views: 12400

Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?

What if the "other" to whom you pray liberates you not as a reward for your faith but through revealing to you that you were never really bound? That He is actually the basis of all you have ever experienced? That "you" are a temporary appearance manifesting in, as, and through Him? Hopefully "his"...
by krodha
Fri May 18, 2018 10:55 pm
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?
Replies: 443
Views: 12400

Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?

I just gave three sources that disprove your statement, but I don't wish to argue. My friend, there is no way you've "disproven" any assertions. You've only cited information you choose to consider valid. There is alleged evidence both for and against the historical character, Jesus Christ. If forc...
by krodha
Fri May 18, 2018 3:07 am
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?
Replies: 443
Views: 12400

Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?

There is actually no evidence for the historical personality, Jesus of Nazareth, apart from Christian sources. Uh huh. And how many contemporaneous records do we have about Sakyamuni? Nāgārjuna? Padmasambhava? Milarepa? Unlike Christianity, the integrity of the Buddhist teachings do not depend on t...

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