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by tobes
Wed Mar 12, 2014 7:46 am
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Is the Sikh religion influenced by (even based on) Dzogchen?
Replies: 154
Views: 17624

Re: Is the Sikh religion influenced by (even based on) Dzogc

Sherab Rigdrol wrote:Her voice doesn't negate the cult she belongs to or the spiritual misguidance she transmits.
Jeez mate, way to lay a heavy trip on some sound.....
by tobes
Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:07 am
Forum: Ethical Conduct
Topic: Discussion of Political Topics is Wrong Speech
Replies: 125
Views: 10572

Re: Discussion of Political Topics is Wrong Speech

there is far more expressively political advice on other matters. I'm not sure how one plausibly could only deny that the Ratnāvalī is filled with such content. It's not that filled, it constitutes somewhat less than 10% of the total. Well it's one of five chapters. Let's call it 20%..... :anjali:
by tobes
Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:06 am
Forum: Ethical Conduct
Topic: Discussion of Political Topics is Wrong Speech
Replies: 125
Views: 10572

Re: Discussion of Political Topics is Wrong Speech

Zhen Li, I think at this stage we are more or less talking past each other. In the name of right speech, perhaps we should move on?

:anjali:
by tobes
Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:04 am
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Is the Sikh religion influenced by (even based on) Dzogchen?
Replies: 154
Views: 17624

Re: Is the Sikh religion influenced by (even based on) Dzogc

If you don't hear beauty, you don't hear beauty. No problemo my friend.

:anjali:
by tobes
Sun Mar 09, 2014 12:28 pm
Forum: Ethical Conduct
Topic: Discussion of Political Topics is Wrong Speech
Replies: 125
Views: 10572

Re: Discussion of Political Topics is Wrong Speech

1. I grant you the point about Ashoka. It points to a more general problem in Buddhist inspired political thinking, which is roughly the problem of negative liberty. 2. The fact that Nāgārjuna is instructing a King that he ought to structure punishment to accord with Buddhist values means that it is...
by tobes
Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:02 am
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Is the Sikh religion influenced by (even based on) Dzogchen?
Replies: 154
Views: 17624

Re: Is the Sikh religion influenced by (even based on) Dzogc

Sikhs go to worship the creator in the sky http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyH8oqndo5Q I'm not normally one for New Agey music, but I did check out that link, and then I found this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3zUYK4YU8M Regardless of the question at stake in this thread, it's pretty hard to den...
by tobes
Sun Mar 09, 2014 5:01 am
Forum: Ethical Conduct
Topic: Discussion of Political Topics is Wrong Speech
Replies: 125
Views: 10572

Re: Discussion of Political Topics is Wrong Speech

"My claim: Statement 1 is problematic for all the good reasons Zhen Li has pointed out." Please read me carefully, otherwise, what hope is there of you responding to the argument I make? Yes, you are maintaining that claim 1 can be justified: "However, statement 2 is both political and predicated o...
by tobes
Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:54 am
Forum: Ethical Conduct
Topic: Discussion of Political Topics is Wrong Speech
Replies: 125
Views: 10572

Re: Discussion of Political Topics is Wrong Speech

I grant you that the Edicts are too often treated glibly by Buddhists wishing to establish a tenable Buddhist influenced politics. There is probably much that is historical myth. However, you should note that what is distinctive about those claims are the renunciation of (state) violence , not the j...
by tobes
Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:38 pm
Forum: Ethical Conduct
Topic: Discussion of Political Topics is Wrong Speech
Replies: 125
Views: 10572

Re: Discussion of Political Topics is Wrong Speech

1. I think David Cameron is a conservative twat. If you voted for him, you must also be a conservative twat. See, this is just the kind of anti-compassionate speech that I am talking about here (I had to look up the word twat :o ). Alexander Berzin often makes the point that in the Holocaust, the p...
by tobes
Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:35 pm
Forum: Ethical Conduct
Topic: Discussion of Political Topics is Wrong Speech
Replies: 125
Views: 10572

Re: Discussion of Political Topics is Wrong Speech

2. Does 'the political' only entail 'worldly matters' of kings, wars and other such gossip? Here a very particular definition of the political is given, which is Other to the dharma. But surely we must consider the political implications of Buddhism itself, inclusive of its Dharma, as it unfolded. ...
by tobes
Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:28 pm
Forum: Ethical Conduct
Topic: Discussion of Political Topics is Wrong Speech
Replies: 125
Views: 10572

Re: Discussion of Political Topics is Wrong Speech

I suppose if you wish to follow verbatim and literally everything that is stated in the Pali canon (whilst excluding much that is written in the Sanskrit, Tibetan, Sino-Japanese canons), then the matter may be resolved in the neat way you suggest. Tobes, I am sorry but that's not very polite to say...
by tobes
Sat Mar 08, 2014 12:00 am
Forum: Ethical Conduct
Topic: Discussion of Political Topics is Wrong Speech
Replies: 125
Views: 10572

Re: Discussion of Political Topics is Wrong Speech

Consider these two political statements: 1. I think David Cameron is a conservative twat. If you voted for him, you must also be a conservative twat. 2. I think all people should be judged according to their actions and merits, not according to their race, class or gender. Where institutions activel...
by tobes
Fri Mar 07, 2014 11:38 pm
Forum: Ethical Conduct
Topic: Discussion of Political Topics is Wrong Speech
Replies: 125
Views: 10572

Re: Discussion of Political Topics is Wrong Speech

The great Buddhists, starting with the Buddha, have had no troubles pointing out the faults in alternative paths or views. Why make politics a special category in which this kind of activity must be suspended? Actually, I did address this issue in the OP from many different sides. I'm claiming that...
by tobes
Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:22 pm
Forum: Ethical Conduct
Topic: Discussion of Political Topics is Wrong Speech
Replies: 125
Views: 10572

Re: Discussion of Political Topics is Wrong Speech

Maybe our job as Buddhists is to recognise (and point out) that those kinds of claims actually construct a certain kind of reality rather than merely representing it, and that it need not be the case. Getting rid of adversarial politics also means getting rid of democracy. :anjali: There is no nece...
by tobes
Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:13 pm
Forum: Ethical Conduct
Topic: Discussion of Political Topics is Wrong Speech
Replies: 125
Views: 10572

Re: Discussion of Political Topics is Wrong Speech

Yet - and this a big yet - is it not more important to reject this Schmittian conception of politics altogether, and to offer an alternative Buddhist inspired view of the political which is defined precisely as the transcendence or overcoming of friend-enemy distinctions? We have these tools. For m...
by tobes
Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:03 am
Forum: Ethical Conduct
Topic: Discussion of Political Topics is Wrong Speech
Replies: 125
Views: 10572

Re: Discussion of Political Topics is Wrong Speech

Generally the term 'political realist' is ascribed by others (i.e. not the thinker herself) and it is often a pejorative for 'war-mongering conservative.' It doesn't necessarily mean they have stronger claims on reality or political reality - the sense of 'real' can be ontological (i.e. the Hobbesia...
by tobes
Wed Mar 05, 2014 5:20 am
Forum: Ethical Conduct
Topic: Discussion of Political Topics is Wrong Speech
Replies: 125
Views: 10572

Re: Discussion of Political Topics is Wrong Speech

Ah, the quietists have not responded! Very wise. Respect!

:bow:
by tobes
Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:48 pm
Forum: Ethical Conduct
Topic: Discussion of Political Topics is Wrong Speech
Replies: 125
Views: 10572

Re: Discussion of Political Topics is Wrong Speech

It's an interesting point, about friend-enemy distinctions. Carl Schmitt, a German realist political philosopher who influenced the Nazi's, defined 'the political' in precisely those terms (i.e. the fundamental question: who is our friend, and who is our enemy?). Now he is easy to dismiss for the wa...
by tobes
Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:07 pm
Forum: Academic Discussion
Topic: responses to Madhyamaka
Replies: 25
Views: 3053

Re: responses to Madhyamaka

Step outside of Buddhist philosophy/studies. Probably the most influential Orthodox Indian response is Shankara, who charges Madhyamikas with nihilism: http://www.amazon.com/Shankaras-Crest-Jewel-Discrimination-Prabhavananda/dp/0874810388 Start with the primary text and work your way out to comment...
by tobes
Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:07 am
Forum: Academic Discussion
Topic: responses to Madhyamaka
Replies: 25
Views: 3053

Re: responses to Madhyamaka

Step outside of Buddhist philosophy/studies. Probably the most influential Orthodox Indian response is Shankara, who charges Madhyamikas with nihilism: http://www.amazon.com/Shankaras-Crest-Jewel-Discrimination-Prabhavananda/dp/0874810388 Start with the primary text and work your way out to commenta...

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