The Wanderer

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Jampel
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The Wanderer

Post by Jampel » Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:13 am

One is not "new" to Dharma, but who is? When all are "Children of Dependent Origination". One has no problem debating that statement. One lives in the forest and sits on a white lotus. One is known to teach "Reality as it is". If the Mind is the obstacle of liberation, then knowing how Mind works becomes important. But Mind does not know Mind, what knows Mind? anuttarā samyaksaṃbodhi.

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Re: The Wanderer

Post by DNS » Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:14 am

Welcome to DW!


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Re: The Wanderer

Post by Monlam Tharchin » Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:35 am

Welcome to Dharma Wheel :smile:
namu amida butsu
OṂ  HRIYADHE  SARWA  TATHĀGATA  HRIDAYA  GARBHE / DZOLA  DHARMADHATU  GARBHE  /  SANG  HARANA  ĀYUḤ  SANGŚHODHAYA  /  PĀPAṂ  SARWA  TATHĀGATA  SAMENDRA  UṢHṆĪKHA  BIMALE  BIŚHUDDHE  SWĀHĀ

The Buddhas and Bodhisattvas have unobstructed vision in all directions.
Everything is in their presence; and I stand in front of them. -- Shantideva

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Re: The Wanderer

Post by Admin_PC » Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:28 pm

Welcome to DharmaWheel!
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Re: The Wanderer

Post by Mantrik » Thu Nov 01, 2018 1:36 pm

Your post made me wonder if you are any relation to The Wanderling who used to frequent forums from time to time? Plexiprs?
http://www.khyung.com

Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)

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Re: The Wanderer

Post by Jampel » Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:41 pm

Mantrik wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 1:36 pm
Your post made me wonder if you are any relation to The Wanderling who used to frequent forums from time to time? Plexiprs?
No, the wanderer comes from a Sutra, the wanderer, wanders with Lord of Mysteries. The Wanderer has many names. The Wanderer is known to have Bindu's on the palms, The Bindu on the left represents all 10 paramitas. The Bindu on the right, is Prajnaparamita, the prajnaparamita is not one of the 10 paramitas, for Prajnaparamita is Dependent Origination, the Mother of all Buddhas. In the right hand One holds the sword of wisdom.

The 10 paramitas you can posses, Prajnaparamita (Dependent Origination) you cannot, but if you believe you can posses Dependent Origination, you should be able to answer this question:

Please explain your arising without using Causes and Conditions?

any answer is either a Cause or Condition, for within Dependent Origination (Arising/Ceasing) there is Emptiness (Conditions) and Karma (Causes).

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Re: The Wanderer

Post by Mantrik » Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:56 pm

Jampel wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:41 pm


Please explain your arising without using Causes and Conditions?

any answer is either a Cause or Condition, for within Dependent Origination (Arising/Ceasing) there is Emptiness (Conditions) and Karma (Causes).
Thanks for the explanation of Wanderer. The person calling himself the Wanderling wrote in a very similar way to yourself; hence the question.

Once you predicate your question on the assumption of an arising and of there being a 'your' which has arisen, the answer is led by the nose.

Does everything arise or is there a continuum of consciousness without beginning and therefore not arisen? Is that consciousness the 'you' that possesses the 'your' you assume to have arisen?
Consciousness through Vipaka? I think not, but don't really care. :)

I'm sure there is interest in such theories on Dharma Wheel, but I'm afraid I've forgotten all I read and discussed and just gratefully focus on practice these days. ;)
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Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

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Re: The Wanderer

Post by Grigoris » Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:06 pm

Jampel wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:41 pm
The 10 paramitas you can posses, Prajnaparamita (Dependent Origination) you cannot, but if you believe you can posses Dependent Origination
Welcome Jampel. This statement flirts dangerously close to complete gibberish. What does "possessing the 10 paramita" even mean?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: The Wanderer

Post by Jampel » Fri Nov 02, 2018 6:29 pm

Possession is Relative, for in Ultimate there is no Arising and Ceasing. So, possessing the 10 paramitas would refer to cultivating and practice, which is Relative, because of the Grasping. If there is no Arising and Ceasing, there would be no Cultivating and practice, for there is No Grasping. No Birth, Old age, illness and death. Birth, Old age, illness and death are both Arising and Ceasing for there is Wrong View (Relative).

Perception (Senses) give rise to Designation (Names/Labels/Memories). Memories are made up of Sight, Sound, Tactile, Smell and Taste, but then you have to add in the Names/Labels of the Constructs, such as the definition of "possession". Ultimately there is no possession. You may believe you "possess" your Senses, but what do you actually possess? Possession is grasping, all grasping is Relative. Senses (Perception) is "As is", Memories (Designation) is also "As is", but when Names/Labels are added, the Ultimate becomes Relative.

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Re: The Wanderer

Post by Malcolm » Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:20 pm

Jampel wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:41 pm

Please explain your arising without using Causes and Conditions?

One can't explain arising with causes and conditions. As Nāgārjuna points out in the MMK:

An entity does not arise from an entity.
An entity does not arise from a nonentity.
A nonentity does not arise from an entity.
A nonentity does not arise from a nonentity.
Where then can there be arising?


"Arising from causes and conditions" is merely a convention which cannot withstand ultimate analysis.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Re: The Wanderer

Post by Grigoris » Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:03 pm

Jampel wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 6:29 pm
So, possessing the 10 paramitas would refer to cultivating and practice...
You mean realising.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: The Wanderer

Post by Monlam Tharchin » Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:13 pm

Jampel wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 6:29 pm
Possession is Relative, for in Ultimate there is no Arising and Ceasing. So, possessing the 10 paramitas would refer to cultivating and practice, which is Relative, because of the Grasping. If there is no Arising and Ceasing, there would be no Cultivating and practice, for there is No Grasping. No Birth, Old age, illness and death. Birth, Old age, illness and death are both Arising and Ceasing for there is Wrong View (Relative).

Perception (Senses) give rise to Designation (Names/Labels/Memories). Memories are made up of Sight, Sound, Tactile, Smell and Taste, but then you have to add in the Names/Labels of the Constructs, such as the definition of "possession". Ultimately there is no possession. You may believe you "possess" your Senses, but what do you actually possess? Possession is grasping, all grasping is Relative. Senses (Perception) is "As is", Memories (Designation) is also "As is", but when Names/Labels are added, the Ultimate becomes Relative.
Greetings, Jampel!

What will you do to benefit beings?
namu amida butsu
OṂ  HRIYADHE  SARWA  TATHĀGATA  HRIDAYA  GARBHE / DZOLA  DHARMADHATU  GARBHE  /  SANG  HARANA  ĀYUḤ  SANGŚHODHAYA  /  PĀPAṂ  SARWA  TATHĀGATA  SAMENDRA  UṢHṆĪKHA  BIMALE  BIŚHUDDHE  SWĀHĀ

The Buddhas and Bodhisattvas have unobstructed vision in all directions.
Everything is in their presence; and I stand in front of them. -- Shantideva

Jampel
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Re: The Wanderer

Post by Jampel » Sat Nov 03, 2018 11:26 am

What will you do to benefit beings?
About 2 years ago there was a Teaching created called "Reality as it is:Dependent Arising". There are two questions asked, the answers are hidden Insight into Dependent Arising. The two questions are fundamental, meaning anyone on this World would answer them the same. The two questions are not based in any Religion/Belief, they are based on proven Science. Then the answers become the Conditions of "Reality as it is", for Mind and Science are Conditioned Phenomena. "Reality as it is" is ripped apart into Perception (Senses/Form) and Designation (Names/Labels/Memories/Emptiness). Then The Law of Causality: Perception (Senses) give rise to Designation (Memories) - All constantly Learning. Designation (Memories) give rise to Perception (Senses) - All constantly Teach. Russian Scientist asked the question "How do thoughts and emotions arise in the Mind?" You must first encounter to have any thought or emotion, so from Designation to Perception: From Designation, Thoughts and Emotions arise. The Teaching has Four Truths:
1. Truth of Ignorance
2. Truth of Suffering
3. Truth of the Cause of Suffering
4. Truth of the Ceasing of Suffering
Perception gives rise to Designation - Truth 1 and 2 - Form is Emptiness
Designation gives rise to Perception - Truth 3 and 4 - Emptiness is Form
If Form is Emptiness, Emptiness is Form then Form is no other than Emptiness as Emptiness is no other than Form: Perception (Senses) and Designation (Memories) are "As is", Free from the Relative, the Mind at rest or Nirvana.

If you notice those Four Truths are Ancient Indian, but also 3 of the 4 Noble Truths. The Path is Taming the Mind, Body and Speech. But first you need to know how Mind "functions" As is. to create all Paths. The Teaching fulfills:
"The cause of all sorrow lies at the very beginning; it is hidden in the ignorance from which life grows. Remove ignorance and you will destroy the wrong desires that rise from ignorance; destroy these desires and you will wipe out the wrong perception that rises from them. Destroy wrong perception and there is an end of errors in individualized beings. Destroy the errors in individualized beings and the illusions of the six fields will disappear. Destroy illusions and the contact with things will cease to beget misconception. Destroy misconception and you do away with thirst. Destroy thirst and you will be free of all morbid cleaving. Remove the cleaving and you destroy the selfishness of selfhood. If the selfishness of selfhood is destroyed you will be above birth, old age, disease, and death, and you will escape all suffering."

The Dalai Lama asked the question: "How does anger arise?" One's answer to him "it is hidden in the ignorance from which life grows." Now he ask's Scientist to give Foundational Proof.

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Re: The Wanderer

Post by Grigoris » Sat Nov 03, 2018 11:53 am

Doesn't really answer the question.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: The Wanderer

Post by Monlam Tharchin » Sat Nov 03, 2018 5:08 pm

Jampel wrote:
Sat Nov 03, 2018 11:26 am
...
The Seven Limb Prayer wrote:(6) With palms pressed together, I beseech you Triumphant who would pass beyond sorrow: I beg you, remain for countless eons so as not to leave in their blindness these wandering beings.
Buddhas know better than any of us here the mistaken imputation of "sentient being".
Yet they seek them out in samsara anyway.

What will you do to benefit beings?
namu amida butsu
OṂ  HRIYADHE  SARWA  TATHĀGATA  HRIDAYA  GARBHE / DZOLA  DHARMADHATU  GARBHE  /  SANG  HARANA  ĀYUḤ  SANGŚHODHAYA  /  PĀPAṂ  SARWA  TATHĀGATA  SAMENDRA  UṢHṆĪKHA  BIMALE  BIŚHUDDHE  SWĀHĀ

The Buddhas and Bodhisattvas have unobstructed vision in all directions.
Everything is in their presence; and I stand in front of them. -- Shantideva

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Re: The Wanderer

Post by Injrabodi » Sat Nov 03, 2018 8:36 pm

Thicket of views.

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Re: The Wanderer

Post by Jampel » Sat Nov 03, 2018 9:28 pm

One wanders in Samsara Teaching Prajnaparamita through out all the World Systems. Destroying Wrong View with the Lions Roar, when the Lion Roars, you sit in silence and behold your ignorance. This World was warned about the Three Poisons, all three have become a World Destroyer. It's from the attachment and grasping of Distorted Reality (Wrong View), hence the Teaching: Reality as it is. So you can behold the ignorance of Wrong View. Is it a Benefit to carry Wrong View?

"A Monk is Buddhist that wears a Robe and has a shaved head." It is free from the Extremes of Form (Gender), As is. Yet, Monks are Male and Nuns are Female on this World. Why? Chenrezig says: "they can't be held responsible for what was taught in the past." Tara was/is a Buddha, Monks of the past were Self-centered. Culture/Society does not dictate BuddhaDhamma.

If any of this has given rise to suffering, it's Self arising.

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Re: The Wanderer

Post by Mantrik » Sat Nov 03, 2018 9:50 pm

Jampel wrote:
Sat Nov 03, 2018 9:28 pm
One wanders in Samsara Teaching Prajnaparamita through out all the World Systems. Destroying Wrong View with the Lions Roar, when the Lion Roars, you sit in silence and behold your ignorance. This World was warned about the Three Poisons, all three have become a World Destroyer. It's from the attachment and grasping of Distorted Reality (Wrong View), hence the Teaching: Reality as it is. So you can behold the ignorance of Wrong View. Is it a Benefit to carry Wrong View?

"A Monk is Buddhist that wears a Robe and has a shaved head." It is free from the Extremes of Form (Gender), As is. Yet, Monks are Male and Nuns are Female on this World. Why? Chenrezig says: "they can't be held responsible for what was taught in the past." Tara was/is a Buddha, Monks of the past were Self-centered. Culture/Society does not dictate BuddhaDhamma.

If any of this has given rise to suffering, it's Self arising.
I'm sorry your suffering has created such overtly expressed need. Perhaps finding a Vajrayana teacher may help you.
http://www.khyung.com

Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)

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Re: The Wanderer

Post by Grigoris » Sat Nov 03, 2018 9:59 pm

Jampel wrote:
Sat Nov 03, 2018 9:28 pm
"A Monk is Buddhist that wears a Robe and has a shaved head." It is free from the Extremes of Form (Gender), As is. Yet, Monks are Male and Nuns are Female on this World. Why? Chenrezig says: "they can't be held responsible for what was taught in the past." Tara was/is a Buddha, Monks of the past were Self-centered. Culture/Society does not dictate BuddhaDhamma.
Who are you quoting here?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

Jampel
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Re: The Wanderer

Post by Jampel » Sun Nov 04, 2018 2:18 pm

This quote "A Monk is a Buddhist that wears a Robe and has a Shaved Head."? It's in one of the many Sutras, since it's an "as is" statement, it's at the level of an Arya. Chenreig is The Dalai Lama.

With the Vajrayana, By virtue One was drawn to the Lineage that says that a Monk is One's Manifestation. Now, the Sangha has a resident Monk that is the head of a Vajrayana Monastery and some of the Lineage Holders (H.H., H.E.) have visited. Asking One to Teach. What say you now?

It's fine to have doubt as long as you question, but if you doubt without question, that's Blind Faith. If you perceive it not being Blind Faith, maybe the understanding of Blind Faith is distorted. Blind Faith, just like doubt is destroyed by Truth. How do you find Truth? you ask questions, the answers you test and examine.

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