Sudden Realization

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SuddenRealization
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Re: Sudden Realization

Post by SuddenRealization » Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:25 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:22 pm
SuddenRealization wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:14 pm
Malcolm, I would like to share that while I can see you seriously know your stuff, and I'm happy you're sharing your honest opinions. I am just looking for what fits with me, and while I do agree my views are not compatible with traditional buddhism, I do not believe they are compatible with any major spiritual stream. I just want to find what works for me.
My views are my personal experiences. I do not expect to fit in anywhere 100%, I'm just looking for what works best for me.

:namaste:
In some respects this make sense, we all need to approach things in our way, and according to our condition.

However, simply approaching the spiritual path to "find what works for me" is a bit of a contradictory task. Right now you are not an enlightened being, and do not really have any idea "what works for you", none of us do, maybe some a glimmer. That's the whole point of following a spiritual tradition and teacher, we rely on them until such time as we've had adequate experience to gain faith in teachings because we've "been there". If we begin by picking and choosing only those things which make sense to us at the beginning of the search, we are just satisfying the very delusions that got us interested in spirituality in the first place.
I wholeheartedly agree, I have no idea what I'm doing right now and finding what works for me is a hard task. I would say I am enlightened in some small ways but I have a long road to travel before reaching my true potential. I'm not even sure if I need a teacher or if I need to walk my own path. I am going to talk to teachers to see what fits though. And like I said I have a meeting with a buddhist master tomorrow to see where that leads me.

Thank you for your insight!

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Re: Sudden Realization

Post by Shiva » Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:30 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:22 pm
SuddenRealization wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:14 pm
Malcolm, I would like to share that while I can see you seriously know your stuff, and I'm happy you're sharing your honest opinions. I am just looking for what fits with me, and while I do agree my views are not compatible with traditional buddhism, I do not believe they are compatible with any major spiritual stream. I just want to find what works for me.
My views are my personal experiences. I do not expect to fit in anywhere 100%, I'm just looking for what works best for me.

:namaste:
What you need is a teacher. No one, absolutely no one, can figure this shit out by themselves.
Exceptionally (like very exceptionally) someone could figure it out for himself due to karmic conditioning, I think. Although I do agree that almost everybody needs a teacher one way or another.

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Re: Sudden Realization

Post by Malcolm » Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:48 pm

SuddenRealization wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:25 pm

I wholeheartedly agree, I have no idea what I'm doing right now and finding what works for me is a hard task. I would say I am enlightened in some small ways but I have a long road to travel before reaching my true potential. I'm not even sure if I need a teacher or if I need to walk my own path. I am going to talk to teachers to see what fits though. And like I said I have a meeting with a buddhist master tomorrow to see where that leads me.

Thank you for your insight!
A teacher cannot walk your path for you. Their job is to make sure you don't lost in the forest. This is why they are given the name "guide," in Sanskrit, "nāyaka."

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Re: Sudden Realization

Post by conebeckham » Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:54 pm

To be blunt, both one's own dreams, and one's decisions about "not needing teachers" or having one's own path are more than likely just one's own delusions.

It's good to be careful when studying and sizing up traditions, teachers, paths, etc. but starting out with the assumption that one MUST have one's own unique way is a hindrance. OF COURSE everyone's path is unique, but everyone's path is also the product of one's unique karma, current circumstances, what-have-you. Studying with a teacher, or following a tradition, does not mean one is not on one's own unique path, after all.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

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SuddenRealization
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Re: Sudden Realization

Post by SuddenRealization » Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:59 pm

conebeckham wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:54 pm
To be blunt, both one's own dreams, and one's decisions about "not needing teachers" or having one's own path are more than likely just one's own delusions.

It's good to be careful when studying and sizing up traditions, teachers, paths, etc. but starting out with the assumption that one MUST have one's own unique way is a hindrance. OF COURSE everyone's path is unique, but everyone's path is also the product of one's unique karma, current circumstances, what-have-you. Studying with a teacher, or following a tradition, does not mean one is not on one's own unique path, after all.
To be clear I am not saying I MUST have my own unique way, I'm just looking what fits, and I will look into finding a teacher, and only if that does not fit will I walk my own path.

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Re: Sudden Realization

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:01 pm

SuddenRealization wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:59 pm
conebeckham wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:54 pm
To be blunt, both one's own dreams, and one's decisions about "not needing teachers" or having one's own path are more than likely just one's own delusions.

It's good to be careful when studying and sizing up traditions, teachers, paths, etc. but starting out with the assumption that one MUST have one's own unique way is a hindrance. OF COURSE everyone's path is unique, but everyone's path is also the product of one's unique karma, current circumstances, what-have-you. Studying with a teacher, or following a tradition, does not mean one is not on one's own unique path, after all.
To be clear I am not saying I MUST have my own unique way, I'm just looking what fits, and I will look into finding a teacher, and only if that does not fit will I walk my own path.
What does it mean to "fit" or "not fit" here?
"...if you think about how many hours, months and years of your life you've spent looking at things, being fascinated by things that have now passed away, then how wonderful to spend even five minutes looking into the nature of your own mind."

-James Low

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SuddenRealization
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Re: Sudden Realization

Post by SuddenRealization » Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:03 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:01 pm
SuddenRealization wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:59 pm
conebeckham wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:54 pm
To be blunt, both one's own dreams, and one's decisions about "not needing teachers" or having one's own path are more than likely just one's own delusions.

It's good to be careful when studying and sizing up traditions, teachers, paths, etc. but starting out with the assumption that one MUST have one's own unique way is a hindrance. OF COURSE everyone's path is unique, but everyone's path is also the product of one's unique karma, current circumstances, what-have-you. Studying with a teacher, or following a tradition, does not mean one is not on one's own unique path, after all.
To be clear I am not saying I MUST have my own unique way, I'm just looking what fits, and I will look into finding a teacher, and only if that does not fit will I walk my own path.
What does it mean to "fit" or "not fit" here?
As long as my views dont inherently conflict with the views of the users here I feel like I fit, but just like totarialism does not fit with democracy I will have to find out if I am not a totaliaran compared to your democracy or the other way around.

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Re: Sudden Realization

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:13 pm

SuddenRealization wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:03 pm
Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:01 pm
SuddenRealization wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:59 pm


To be clear I am not saying I MUST have my own unique way, I'm just looking what fits, and I will look into finding a teacher, and only if that does not fit will I walk my own path.
What does it mean to "fit" or "not fit" here?
As long as my views dont inherently conflict with the views of the users here I feel like I fit, but just like totarialism does not fit with democracy I will have to find out if I am not a totaliaran compared to your democracy or the other way around.
It's really not about users here, as hopefully if we are providing correct information we are just talking in accord with the Dharma. How would you determine what "fits", and what exactly is it fitting; your preferences, expectations, previous experiences?

I mean how will you react when you find something that doesn't fit, just toss it away because it "feels" wrong? I'm trying to figure out the logic behind your approach here.

There's the old Zen story about not "emptying one's cup", I have to wonder if it doesn't fit here.
"...if you think about how many hours, months and years of your life you've spent looking at things, being fascinated by things that have now passed away, then how wonderful to spend even five minutes looking into the nature of your own mind."

-James Low

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SuddenRealization
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Re: Sudden Realization

Post by SuddenRealization » Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:20 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:13 pm
SuddenRealization wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:03 pm
Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:01 pm


What does it mean to "fit" or "not fit" here?
As long as my views dont inherently conflict with the views of the users here I feel like I fit, but just like totarialism does not fit with democracy I will have to find out if I am not a totaliaran compared to your democracy or the other way around.
It's really not about users here, as hopefully if we are providing correct information we are just talking in accord with the Dharma. How would you determine what "fits", and what exactly is it fitting; your preferences, expectations, previous experiences?

I mean how will you react when you find something that doesn't fit, just toss it away because it "feels" wrong? I'm trying to figure out the logic behind your approach here.

There's the old Zen story about not "emptying one's cup", I have to wonder if it doesn't fit here.
Well, I will not just dismiss anything because my gut tells me it does not fit into what I currently think. I will take any input seriously and I will take my time to think about if it is what I feel is correct. I am not here to push what I think, and I am not here to reject anything that conflicts with my current thoughts.

I am here to share my ideas and to use your ideas to refine them into something that can become my lifestyle.

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Re: Sudden Realization

Post by Simon E. » Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:32 pm

The problem with that is the fact that Buddhadharma is not here to improve your lifestyle. It’s far more radical than that.
One of my teachers said that if you do not want to have every assumption undermined it’s best to leave it alone.
But if you start on the path of Dharma, you had better see it through.
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.

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Re: Sudden Realization

Post by SuddenRealization » Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:33 pm

Simon E. wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:32 pm
The problem with that is the fact that Buddhadharma is not here to improve your lifestyle. It’s far more radical than that.
May I ask how?

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Re: Sudden Realization

Post by Simon E. » Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:48 pm

By bringing about the realisation that the “you” that you assume has no reality. That it is a construct. A temporary arising of ever changing elements.
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.

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Re: Sudden Realization

Post by florin » Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:52 pm

SuddenRealization wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:20 pm
Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:13 pm
SuddenRealization wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:03 pm


As long as my views dont inherently conflict with the views of the users here I feel like I fit, but just like totarialism does not fit with democracy I will have to find out if I am not a totaliaran compared to your democracy or the other way around.
It's really not about users here, as hopefully if we are providing correct information we are just talking in accord with the Dharma. How would you determine what "fits", and what exactly is it fitting; your preferences, expectations, previous experiences?

I mean how will you react when you find something that doesn't fit, just toss it away because it "feels" wrong? I'm trying to figure out the logic behind your approach here.

There's the old Zen story about not "emptying one's cup", I have to wonder if it doesn't fit here.
Well, I will not just dismiss anything because my gut tells me it does not fit into what I currently think. I will take any input seriously and I will take my time to think about if it is what I feel is correct. I am not here to push what I think, and I am not here to reject anything that conflicts with my current thoughts.

I am here to share my ideas and to use your ideas to refine them into something that can become my lifestyle.
Hi,

It looks like what you are trying to do is manipulate certain snippets of information to accord with your own karma.
The karma is strong and that is the basis on which you operate right now.
I think is helpful to know that is not advisable to use karma as the absolute measure and to make the external world fit with how the karmic wind blows. You need to become wise and see through this deception but that wont be easy on your own.

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Re: Sudden Realization

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:23 pm

SuddenRealization wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:20 pm



Well, I will not just dismiss anything because my gut tells me it does not fit into what I currently think. I will take any input seriously and I will take my time to think about if it is what I feel is correct. I am not here to push what I think, and I am not here to reject anything that conflicts with my current thoughts.

I am here to share my ideas and to use your ideas to refine them into something that can become my lifestyle.
No one is jumping on you as a member of the forum or trying to convert you, we are just trying to get at your thought process. How will you determine what you feel is correct? What are you criteria for accepting or rejecting teachings?
"...if you think about how many hours, months and years of your life you've spent looking at things, being fascinated by things that have now passed away, then how wonderful to spend even five minutes looking into the nature of your own mind."

-James Low

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Re: Sudden Realization

Post by cjdevries » Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:39 pm

I really respect what you're doing Sudden Realization. That is a good method. Find what works for you and integrate whatever teachings work for you into your life. The goal is to be more compassionate and that in itself will lead to freedom, no matter what religion or path you take to get there. One day I shared some Buddhist stuff with a friend because I thought it might help her. She said she was resonating more with pagan stuff and particularly had a close affinity with a specific deity. She told me that she felt there was no correct spiritual way. She said all spiritual truths are valid and all are leading to inner freedom and becoming a better person. I have never forgot that lesson, it was one of the best teachings I ever got. Anything that leads to inner freedom and compassion is an authentic path.

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Re: Sudden Realization

Post by Simon E. » Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:45 pm

cjdevries wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:39 pm
I really respect what you're doing Sudden Realization. That is a good method. Find what works for you and integrate whatever teachings work for you into your life. The goal is to be more compassionate and that in itself will lead to freedom, no matter what religion or path you take to get there. One day I shared some Buddhist stuff with a friend because I thought it might help her. She said she was resonating more with pagan stuff and particularly had a close affinity with a specific deity. She told me that she felt there was no correct spiritual way. She said all spiritual truths are valid and all are leading to inner freedom and becoming a better person. I have never forgot that lesson, it was one of the best teachings I ever got. Anything that leads to inner freedom and compassion is an authentic path.
So why are you posting on a forum quite clearly headed “A
Buddhist Discussion Forum For Mahayana And Vajrayana BUDDHISM“ and whose Terms Of Service make it clear that it is not a comparative religion website?
Do you hang around on Christian websites in order to post your little notions?
Last edited by Simon E. on Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.

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Re: Sudden Realization

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:46 pm

cjdevries wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:39 pm
I really respect what you're doing Sudden Realization. That is a good method. Find what works for you and integrate whatever teachings work for you into your life. The goal is to be more compassionate and that in itself will lead to freedom, no matter what religion or path you take to get there. One day I shared some Buddhist stuff with a friend because I thought it might help her. She said she was resonating more with pagan stuff and particularly had a close affinity with a specific deity. She told me that she felt there was no correct spiritual way. She said all spiritual truths are valid and all are leading to inner freedom and becoming a better person. I have never forgot that lesson, it was one of the best teachings I ever got. Anything that leads to inner freedom and compassion is an authentic path.
How can you tell that what you are practicing is leading to inner freedom? What are your criteria? What exactly is inner freedom to you, and if all paths can lead to it, why do they define things so differently?

If becoming more compassionate to others in daily life is one's main goal, religion and spirituality are not even needed at all. Similarly, if one wants to just learn to manage emotions, this can be done in a completely secular way, it doesn't require a spiritual vehicle at all.
"...if you think about how many hours, months and years of your life you've spent looking at things, being fascinated by things that have now passed away, then how wonderful to spend even five minutes looking into the nature of your own mind."

-James Low

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Re: Sudden Realization

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:51 pm

SuddenRealization wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:33 pm
Simon E. wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:32 pm
The problem with that is the fact that Buddhadharma is not here to improve your lifestyle. It’s far more radical than that.
May I ask how?
The point of the Mahayana is leave Samsara and take everyone with you! So basically, while worldly goals can be a great thing, the point of Buddhism is liberation from the wheel of existence.
"...if you think about how many hours, months and years of your life you've spent looking at things, being fascinated by things that have now passed away, then how wonderful to spend even five minutes looking into the nature of your own mind."

-James Low

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Re: Sudden Realization

Post by SuddenRealization » Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:56 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:23 pm
SuddenRealization wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:20 pm



Well, I will not just dismiss anything because my gut tells me it does not fit into what I currently think. I will take any input seriously and I will take my time to think about if it is what I feel is correct. I am not here to push what I think, and I am not here to reject anything that conflicts with my current thoughts.

I am here to share my ideas and to use your ideas to refine them into something that can become my lifestyle.
No one is jumping on you as a member of the forum or trying to convert you, we are just trying to get at your thought process. How will you determine what you feel is correct? What are you criteria for accepting or rejecting teachings?
I do not expect anyone to be converting me right now, and honestly I am not fully certain what I will use to determine what teachings will fit with me right now and what teachings I will reject. I am just following my heart to determine what does and does not work for me. So I do not have any clear requirements for what path I will follow.

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Re: Sudden Realization

Post by SuddenRealization » Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:58 pm

I realize I'm being very vague right now for what im looking for, but that is just because i dont know what im really looking for.

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