Mahamudra in Wikipedia

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kajibabu
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Mahamudra in Wikipedia

Post by kajibabu » Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:27 am

I found following comment about Mahamudra in Wikipedia, would you please clarify this for me? Your help is appreciated.

Drinking Sexual Fluids

Sexual fluids (rakta and śukra) are Mahāmudrā in physical form. When you ingest sexual fluids consciously, you set off the sympathetic vibrations between sexual fluids and Great Bliss, and you spontaneously attain nondual awareness. Accordingly, the Hevajra Tantra instructs practitioners of Mahāmudrā to drink sexual fluids daily. In addition, in the ritual of Tasting the Nectar of Immortality (Amṛita Āsvādana) taught by Śabara, you take the sexual fluids generated by your lovemaking and place them into a cup of alcohol containing the pure substances of the Five Nectars: 1) feces, 2) urine, 3) human flesh, 4) female sexual fluids, and 5) male sexual fluids. You mix them together, blessing the drink with the dhāraṇī mantra of the deity, and ingest them, triggering an experience of Mahāmudrā. [31]
Babu, Nepal

ngodrup
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Re: Mahamudra in Wikipedia

Post by ngodrup » Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:45 pm

Chakrasamvara as well.
Consider the possibility that this is both allegory and
also a high level practice at the physical level. If you
have the capacity to perceive the "impure" as pure.

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conebeckham
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Re: Mahamudra in Wikipedia

Post by conebeckham » Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:49 pm

This is one of the reasons Vajrayana is called "Secret Mantra" path.

There are many different ways to understand this practice, but they need to be learned from a qualified teacher, by a qualified student. Many different levels of explanation....
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

smcj
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Re: Mahamudra in Wikipedia

Post by smcj » Sat Mar 22, 2014 6:00 pm

conebeckham wrote:This is one of the reasons Vajrayana is called "Secret Mantra" path.

There are many different ways to understand this practice, but they need to be learned from a qualified teacher, by a qualified student. Many different levels of explanation....
:good:

I am not a Mahamudra practitioner yet, but from having experienced my teacher's perspective I have no expectation of ever literally doing anything like this. The texts do not mean what they literally say. But if you want to be your own teacher, then by all means go ahead and try it!
I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against Lama abuse.

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kirtu
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Re: Mahamudra in Wikipedia

Post by kirtu » Sat Mar 22, 2014 6:18 pm

conebeckham wrote:This is one of the reasons Vajrayana is called "Secret Mantra" path.

There are many different ways to understand this practice, but they need to be learned from a qualified teacher, by a qualified student. Many different levels of explanation....
That sums it up.
smcj wrote: The texts do not mean what they literally say.
Well, they do not necessarily mean what they literally say.
smcj wrote:But if you want to be your own teacher, then by all means go ahead and try it!
Ah, no.

Remember that the original citation is from Wikipedia. The Hevajra Tantra taken by itself mostly looks like a book of magic and is written in heavily veiled language. It can be interpreted also on many different levels. The basic statement as written:
Sexual fluids (rakta and śukra) are Mahāmudrā in physical form.
is not to be trusted (and certainly not the following statement about "sympathetic vibrations"). The stuff about the five meats (feces, urine, etc.) refers to tsok offering.

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

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conebeckham
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Re: Mahamudra in Wikipedia

Post by conebeckham » Sat Mar 22, 2014 7:01 pm

One other thing that should be said, is that this practice of tasting the Amrita is a anuttarayogatantra practice--more related to the yogas of creation and completion. It's quite common in Sarma yidam sadhanas.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

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Astus
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Re: Mahamudra in Wikipedia

Post by Astus » Sun Mar 23, 2014 3:29 pm

For the tantra part:

"to ingest excrement or urine and do other similar acts is to apply the practice of total sameness of flavor of the sense faculties and their objects"
(JKLT: Systems of Buddhist Tantra, p 288)

"There are numerous methods of pointing out, directly and in actuality, the wisdom that is the union of emptiness and cognizance or emptiness and awareness."
(Tsele Natsok Rangdrol: Empowerment, p 44; see also pp 40-48)

see also: David B. Gray: The Cakrasamvara Tantra, pp. 104-114, 117-124.

For a Mahamudra take on it:

Saraha:

"For those unaware of the nature of everything,
Great bliss is attained in sexual union;
As if thirst-ridden, chasing after water in mirage,
They die from thirst, and do they ever drink the sky-water?
Whoever frolics in this bliss,
Living between vajra and lotus,
What for? This has no capacity for truth,
So {where} in the three worlds will you be complete?
The bliss of means is the moment,
And this itself becomes both;
Through the kindness of the master,
A handful in a hundred will understand."

(Dreaming the Great Brahmin, p 166)

Takpo Tashi Namgyal:

"It is highly incorrect to claim as the state of mahamudra an experience of bliss that pervades the body and mind and which is transmuted with [awareness of] void as if through the process of imprint. This is because the sensation of bliss has emerged from the cyclic flow of the sexual fluid brought about by means of the third empowerment."
(Mahamudra - The Quintessence of Mind and Meditation, p 108)
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"

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