practicing alone

Locked
User avatar
Karma Dondrup Tashi
Posts: 1615
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:13 pm

Re: practicing alone

Post by Karma Dondrup Tashi » Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:56 pm

The mahamudra experience depends on devotion alone. As it is said in the texts: great devotion brings great practice, medium devotion brings medium practice, and small devotion brings small practice. Mahamudra is based so much on devotion that it has been described as devotion mahamudra. Those two are always together: mahamudra and devotion, devotion and mahamudra. So whenever a person has experienced or is about to experience mahamudra, the first prerequisite is devotion.
Trungpa

User avatar
Karma Dondrup Tashi
Posts: 1615
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:13 pm

Re: practicing alone

Post by Karma Dondrup Tashi » Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:57 pm

Mahamudra can only exist in the minds of students who have fully committed themselves to the vajrayana path alone, without exception. However, you cannot commit yourself without a reason. And the only reason you commit yourself to the practice is because of the personal link that exists between you, the teaching, and the teacher. Such a link is not possible if you decide to hold back your own world, rather than giving it up. That giving-up process is precisely what is meant by giving up territoriality.
Trungpa

User avatar
Karma Dondrup Tashi
Posts: 1615
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:13 pm

Re: practicing alone

Post by Karma Dondrup Tashi » Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:58 pm

Mahamudra cannot be born in individuals who are without devotion. Such devotion is not particularly political, it refers rather to a personal appreciation of the teachings, the spokesperson of the teachings, and the atmosphere that such teachings produce around you. It is impossible for mahamudra to be born in your heart if there is no sense of delight. Mahamudra cannot be born in somebody who is highly depressed by the impossibility of themselves and the teacher and the teachings. There has to be a feeling of delight and cheerfulness taking place, and cheerfulness can only begin to take place by relating with the vajra master, who represents and symbolizes the vajrayana teaching altogether. Out of devotion toward the vajra master, appreciation of the teachings begins to evolve as well, because the vajra master is somebody who lives the teachings. The vajra master is living teachings. And at some point, the whole thing turns back around to you, saying that now you have to do the whole thing.
Trungpa

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 28527
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: practicing alone

Post by Malcolm » Wed Apr 22, 2015 9:17 pm

Astus wrote:
Malcolm wrote:Well, which "prajñāpāramitā" is he discussing? The practice of prajñāpāramita? Or the result, Prajñāpāramita?
Gampopa writes: "Setting the mind this way is the unmistaken method of practicing wisdom awareness." (p 249) and where he gives the list of all those things he beings with: "When one is endowed with the meaning of emptiness, there is not a single thing which in not included in this path." (p 252) In the commentaries by Ringu Tulku and Thrangu Rinpoche they both talk about resting in the natural state as taught in Mahamudra.
Settling mind in what way? In which path is everything included? How is this path introduced, can you just look it up on the internet?
The difference between sutra and tantra in terms of Mahamudra are quite practical: "According to Mahamudra teachers, the sutric Mahayana approach uses external phenomena as the object of vipashyana meditation, whereas the tantric Mahayana approach of Mahamudra uses the mind itself as the object." (Traleg Kyabgon).
How is that possible? Have these teachers never heard of Yogacara? And even here, why make a distinction between the tantric Mahāmudra approach and the sūtra Mahāyāna approach if in reality they are both "mahāmudra"?


Also,

"Gampopa said that there are three different paths with different practices, but these three paths have the same nature. These are taking inference as the path, taking blessings as the path, and taking direct experience as the path. Taking inference as the path refers to, for instance, the various reasonings set forth in the Madhyamaka that show that all things are neither single nor multiple. Taking blessings as the path refers to, for instance, meditation upon the body of a deity or the practices involving the subtle channels and subtle energies. Taking direct perception as the path is mahamudra. Mahamudra is pointed out to us, and we recognize it, become accustomed to it, and take direct experience as the path.
We can also classify the different paths into three groups: the paths that abandon the ground, paths that transform the ground, and paths that recognize· the ground.The first path of abandoning the ground is the vehicle of transcendent action of the sutra vehicle, in which some things are abandoned and others are remedies for those things to be abandoned. The second path, transformation of the ground, refers to the practices of the Vajrayana in which we purity our body and mind by meditating on our body being a deity. Our body is thus transformed into the pure body of the deity, and our mind is transformed from discursiveness into wisdom. In the third path, recognizing the ground, is mahamudra.We know that we do not need to abandon or transform the ground; rather, we know it as it is. When we know the ground as it is, we recognize all appearances as the magical display of the mind. Thus, mahamudra is a matter of using direct perception as the path. This is also called the quick path."

(Thrangu: Essentials of Mahamudra, p 78-79)
Drogmi Lotsawa states that the difference between sūtra and tantra is that tantra uses direct perception as the path. This direct perception is the basis of all Secret Mantra meditation and is the experiential view introduced in the very beginning during the empowerment, this is why Secret Mantra is a quick path. But there is no separate means of introducing this experiential view outside of the empowerment, there is no mahāmudra that exists outside of Vajrayāna.

As for the so called Sutra Mahamudra (that actually stands for Gampopa's Mahamudra):

"The meditation of Sutra Mahamudra essentially consists of resting one's mind, free of mental activity, in the state of nonconceptual wisdom. This is the fundamental definition of Sutra Mahamudra: mind resting in the state in which it experiences the dharmadhatu, which is the expanse or nature of all things. This resting is essentially a nonconceptual wisdom beyond all elaboration, or the unity of clarity and emptiness. In this context, one meditates in the following way: The object of one's meditation is luminosity free of any projections; the perceiving subject is the lack of mental engagement; and one meditates without mental engagement. There are many extensive explanations on meditating without mental engagement, found primarily in the teachings of Maitripa and Sahajavajra.
The Sutrayana approach to Mahamudra is seen as a very profound method because it does not require any of the sophisticated and complex tantric rituals, deity yoga visualization practices, or samayas. It is a simple sutra approach, yet it conveys the direct transmission of the tantric essence of awakening."

(Dzogchen Ponlop: Wild Awakening, 31-32)
It does not in any way shape or form go beyond Prajñāpāramita, and since there is no empowerment, there is no experiential view to be cultivated. As Khenpo Tsultrim Gyatso told me, and as you can confirm by reading Kongtrul, sūtra mahāmudra was invented for those Gampopa deemed unready for Secret Mantra.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 28527
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: practicing alone

Post by Malcolm » Wed Apr 22, 2015 9:18 pm

Karma Dondrup Tashi wrote:Mahamudra can only exist in the minds of students who have fully committed themselves to the vajrayana path alone...
Trungpa

It's nice to know that Trungpa and I have the same point of view on this.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

User avatar
Tsongkhapafan
Posts: 1215
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 9:36 am

Re: practicing alone

Post by Tsongkhapafan » Wed Apr 22, 2015 9:50 pm

DesertDweller wrote:It does sound like purely interschool squabbling to me, and squabbling over semantics. None of which is of interest to me. But you guys can feel free to knock yourselves out.
It's certainly not that. Surely knowing the correct causes of Mahamudra realisations is absolutely vital for everyone's practice?

User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 8347
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Re: practicing alone

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Wed Apr 22, 2015 9:56 pm

Greetings friends.
A question: while it goes without saying that having a teacher is always best, is it possible to study and practice Mahamudra on one's own, at least until such a time as a teacher can be found? Is it a discipline which requires empowerments, etc.? If it is possible to practice without a teacher, what are some helpful resources available online?

Any insight on this will be most appreciated.
Here's the OP's question again.

I intuit the answer here is something like "sure, you can practice Shamatha , but hey, find a teacher".

I don't think (correct me if i'm wrong) the OP really had in mind whether or not he could achieve Mahamudra, or receive blessings in Vajrayana sense by practicing some techniques from Barth's manual or similar. I had to study Vajrayana writings, get empowerments, and ask lots of questions for a year before I even could properly contextualize what "Mahamudra" even means..still not even sure I get some of the nuances behind how the term is used. I believed in the beginning it was simply a type of meditation - and I am assuming that this is how the OP is framing it, since he is not a Vajrayana practitioner, and may not eb familiar with the multivalent uses of the term Mahamudra.


So it begs the question, what (if any) usefulness could be gleaned from that kind of practice without a teacher? Further, since some of those techniques (following breath, just sitting etc.) have equivalents in other (sutra) Buddhist traditions, and are certainly publicly taught to those without initiation, bot within Vajrayana and outside of it, why would this be different than practicing those?

Basically, to move the thread along...should he not practice at all if he's not going to find a teacher? That is what it sounds like people are saying in places, if that isn't what people are saying, then can the message be clarified for the sake of the thread?
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

-Jeff H.

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 28527
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: practicing alone

Post by Malcolm » Wed Apr 22, 2015 9:59 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Greetings friends.
A question: while it goes without saying that having a teacher is always best, is it possible to study and practice Mahamudra on one's own, at least until such a time as a teacher can be found? Is it a discipline which requires empowerments, etc.? If it is possible to practice without a teacher, what are some helpful resources available online?

Any insight on this will be most appreciated.
Here's the OP's question again.

I intuit the answer here is something like "sure, you can practice Shamatha , but hey, find a teacher".

I don't think (correct me if i'm wrong) the OP really had in mind whether or not he could achieve Mahamudra, or receive blessings in Vajrayana sense by practicing some techniques from Barth's manual or similar. I had to study Vajrayana writings, get empowerments, and ask lots of questions for a year before I even could properly contextualize what "Mahamudra" even means..still not even sure I get some of the nuances behind how the term is used. I believed in the beginning it was simply a type of meditation - and I am assuming that this is how the OP is framing it, since he is not a Vajrayana practitioner.

So it begs the question, what (if any) usefulness could be gleaned from that kind of practice without a teacher? Further, since some of those techniques (following breath, just sitting etc.) have equivalents in other (sutra) Buddhist traditions, and are certainly publicly taught to those without initiation, bot within Vajrayana and outside of it, why would this be different than practicing those?

Basically, to move the thread along...should he not practice at all if he's not going to find a teacher? That is what it sounds like people are saying in places, if that isn't what people are saying, then can the message be clarified for the sake of the thread?
The answer is no, it is not possible to study and practice Mahāmudra on one's own. Hell, not even the Dharma in general can be practiced without a teacher. Studied, yes; practiced, no.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 8347
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Re: practicing alone

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:01 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Greetings friends.
A question: while it goes without saying that having a teacher is always best, is it possible to study and practice Mahamudra on one's own, at least until such a time as a teacher can be found? Is it a discipline which requires empowerments, etc.? If it is possible to practice without a teacher, what are some helpful resources available online?

Any insight on this will be most appreciated.
Here's the OP's question again.

I intuit the answer here is something like "sure, you can practice Shamatha , but hey, find a teacher".

I don't think (correct me if i'm wrong) the OP really had in mind whether or not he could achieve Mahamudra, or receive blessings in Vajrayana sense by practicing some techniques from Barth's manual or similar. I had to study Vajrayana writings, get empowerments, and ask lots of questions for a year before I even could properly contextualize what "Mahamudra" even means..still not even sure I get some of the nuances behind how the term is used. I believed in the beginning it was simply a type of meditation - and I am assuming that this is how the OP is framing it, since he is not a Vajrayana practitioner.

So it begs the question, what (if any) usefulness could be gleaned from that kind of practice without a teacher? Further, since some of those techniques (following breath, just sitting etc.) have equivalents in other (sutra) Buddhist traditions, and are certainly publicly taught to those without initiation, bot within Vajrayana and outside of it, why would this be different than practicing those?

Basically, to move the thread along...should he not practice at all if he's not going to find a teacher? That is what it sounds like people are saying in places, if that isn't what people are saying, then can the message be clarified for the sake of the thread?
The answer is no, it is not possible to study and practice Mahāmudra on one's own.
I am not sure he is asking about "practicing Mahamudra" in the proper sense, or has an idea of what that means.. but again, seems to be simply asking about learning some Shamatha techniques etc.

If he IS asking that, then he has his answer.

It's certainly possible to learn basic shamatha meditation from books. IME not that profitable, but definitely possible.
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

-Jeff H.

BuddhaFollower
Posts: 602
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:41 pm

Re: practicing alone

Post by BuddhaFollower » Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:47 pm

Malcolm,


Are you are saying Mahamudra is the term for Buddhahood that is the result of Highest Yoga Tantra's 4 empowerments, 2 stages and/or guru yoga?
Just recognize the conceptualizing mind.

User avatar
conebeckham
Posts: 4929
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:49 pm
Location: Bay Area, CA, USA

Re: practicing alone

Post by conebeckham » Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:30 pm

Tsongkhapafan wrote:
DesertDweller wrote:It does sound like purely interschool squabbling to me, and squabbling over semantics. None of which is of interest to me. But you guys can feel free to knock yourselves out.
It's certainly not that. Surely knowing the correct causes of Mahamudra realisations is absolutely vital for everyone's practice?
Perhaps only for those practicing Mahamudra. And, as we've seen, there are a variety of opinions regarding what that means. I'm going to venture a guess that your own tradition's "Mahamudra practice" bears very little in common with the majority of what other Tibetan lineages call "Mahamudra practice."
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

User avatar
conebeckham
Posts: 4929
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:49 pm
Location: Bay Area, CA, USA

Re: practicing alone

Post by conebeckham » Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:40 pm

Malcolm wrote:It does not in any way shape or form go beyond Prajñāpāramita, and since there is no empowerment, there is no experiential view to be cultivated. As Khenpo Tsultrim Gyatso told me, and as you can confirm by reading Kongtrul, sūtra mahāmudra was invented for those Gampopa deemed unready for Secret Mantra.
Malcolm--Khenpo Tsultrim Gyamtso is one of my teachers, and in fact one of my Mahamudra teachers. I will partly confirm your claim--Khenpo-la specifically told me that Sutra Mahamudra wasn't even a "term" until Kongtrul's time, if I recall. But the techniques Gampopa used, guiding some students based on instructions without an explicit empowerment, was not felt by Khenpo-la to be "incorrect." Khenpo-La himself referred to Maitripa's tradition, and Saraha's instructions. He noted that both of these Mahasiddhas were indeed Tantrikas, but he felt that did not mean that the paths they outlined, and the paths that Gampopa drew from, must be preceded by empowerment. In fact, much of what Gampopa drew from, for this "guidance system," was from the Kadam, as I said earlier, and Brunnholzl fleshes this out more completely.

Most Kagyupas, in fact, recognize Gampopa as an innovator. All the Kagyu Lamas I've talked with, about this issue, will readily admit this. With pride.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

User avatar
Tsongkhapafan
Posts: 1215
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 9:36 am

Re: practicing alone

Post by Tsongkhapafan » Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:57 pm

conebeckham wrote:
Tsongkhapafan wrote:
DesertDweller wrote:It does sound like purely interschool squabbling to me, and squabbling over semantics. None of which is of interest to me. But you guys can feel free to knock yourselves out.
It's certainly not that. Surely knowing the correct causes of Mahamudra realisations is absolutely vital for everyone's practice?
Perhaps only for those practicing Mahamudra. And, as we've seen, there are a variety of opinions regarding what that means. I'm going to venture a guess that your own tradition's "Mahamudra practice" bears very little in common with the majority of what other Tibetan lineages call "Mahamudra practice."
That's where you'd be completely wrong Cone. Don't be so sectarian.

Many people think that Je Tsongkhapa was a great scholar but he was also a great Yogi.
Last edited by Tsongkhapafan on Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
conebeckham
Posts: 4929
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:49 pm
Location: Bay Area, CA, USA

Re: practicing alone

Post by conebeckham » Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:04 am

Tsongkhapafan wrote:That's where you'd be completely wrong Cone. Don't be so sectarian.

Many people think that Je Tsongkhapa was a great scholar but he was also a great Yogi.
I never said he wasn't a great Yogi. Let me ask you, though--is your Mahamudra tradition that called the "Kagyu/Genden Tradition" or "Kagyu/Geluk" tradition? Or is it that which your New Kadampa tradition calls "Mahamudra Tantra, and which is "ONLY" the result of Highest Yoga Tantra? The Clear Light Mind of Bliss that realizes Emptiness, as I believe it's described?
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

User avatar
Tsongkhapafan
Posts: 1215
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 9:36 am

Re: practicing alone

Post by Tsongkhapafan » Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:07 am

conebeckham wrote:
Tsongkhapafan wrote:That's where you'd be completely wrong Cone. Don't be so sectarian.

Many people think that Je Tsongkhapa was a great scholar but he was also a great Yogi.
I never said he wasn't a great Yogi. Let me ask you, though--is your Mahamudra tradition that called the "Kagyu/Genden Tradition" or "Kagyu/Geluk" tradition? Or is it that which your New Kadampa tradition calls "Mahamudra Tantra, and which is "ONLY" the result of Highest Yoga Tantra? The Clear Light Mind of Bliss that realizes Emptiness, as I believe it's described?
I believe this discussion would contravene the TOS, so we're not going to have it.

User avatar
conebeckham
Posts: 4929
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:49 pm
Location: Bay Area, CA, USA

Re: practicing alone

Post by conebeckham » Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:13 am

Tsongkhapafan wrote:
conebeckham wrote:
Tsongkhapafan wrote:That's where you'd be completely wrong Cone. Don't be so sectarian.

Many people think that Je Tsongkhapa was a great scholar but he was also a great Yogi.
I never said he wasn't a great Yogi. Let me ask you, though--is your Mahamudra tradition that called the "Kagyu/Genden Tradition" or "Kagyu/Geluk" tradition? Or is it that which your New Kadampa tradition calls "Mahamudra Tantra, and which is "ONLY" the result of Highest Yoga Tantra? The Clear Light Mind of Bliss that realizes Emptiness, as I believe it's described?
I believe this discussion would contravene the TOS, so we're not going to have it.
Alright. However, it is most assuredly not "sectarian" to point out that different lineages have widely different interpretations of what the term encompasses. Heck, this whole thread is a pretty convincing argument of THAT fact. You yourself have argued for a "correct understanding" as vital. If your tradition is correct, does that allow for other traditions to also be correct?
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

User avatar
Tsongkhapafan
Posts: 1215
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 9:36 am

Re: practicing alone

Post by Tsongkhapafan » Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:18 am

conebeckham wrote:
Tsongkhapafan wrote:
I believe this discussion would contravene the TOS, so we're not going to have it.
Alright. However, it is most assuredly not "sectarian" to point out that different lineages have widely different interpretations of what the term encompasses. Heck, this whole thread is a pretty convincing argument of THAT fact. You yourself have argued for a "correct understanding" as vital. If your tradition is correct, does that allow for other traditions to also be correct?
My views on this subject accord completely with Malcolm's. I don't believe that it's possible to gain Mahamudra realisations without practising Highest Yoga Tantra and receiving blessings by engaging in Guru Yoga. Anyone who disagrees I would say is wrong, but they are entitled to their views.

User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 8347
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Re: practicing alone

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:36 am

dharmagoat wrote:
Malcolm wrote:For example, if you go to a store and buy a Gucci suit, but you later find out that you have been sold a cheap knockoff, you will not be happy. Likewise, if you receive some information about Dharma somewhere, and then find you have been misled, you will not be happy.
The idea that we 'buy' Dharma like we buy a Gucci suit is abhorrent.

This whole debate seems to center around control of Mahāmudrā as a brand. It is an intellectual property issue than many of us consider irrelevant at best.

I actually think the points being made are quite relevant, I just think it would be good to acknowledge that there is alot of nuance in a conversation like this. Especially given the fact that (as I mentioned) I think the OP is basically asking about learning some shamatha meditation techniques, and not necessarily asking whether or not using said techniques counts as Mahamudra practice in the sense that folks are using it here. I could be wrong, I am just going by my own experiences when I had the same questions a few years back.

And it is not about a brand, but defining what counts as "practicing" and what does not.
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

-Jeff H.

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 28527
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: practicing alone

Post by Malcolm » Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:02 am

BuddhaFollower wrote:Malcolm,


Are you are saying Mahamudra is the term for Buddhahood that is the result of Highest Yoga Tantra's 4 empowerments, 2 stages and/or guru yoga?
Yes, in essence.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

BuddhaFollower
Posts: 602
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:41 pm

Re: practicing alone

Post by BuddhaFollower » Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:04 am

Ok good.
Just recognize the conceptualizing mind.

Locked

Return to “Mahamudra”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 14 guests