Mahamudra in the Modern World

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Malcolm
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Re: Mahamudra in the Modern World

Post by Malcolm » Wed Apr 29, 2015 3:21 pm

Crazywisdom wrote:
Sherlock wrote:Why are you so enamoured with Chogyam Trungpa when you have no possibility of receiving teachings from him? Did he authorize any of these students to teach Mahamudra or Dzogchen in their entirety?

Tony Duff is also a student of Trungpa and presents himself and Trungpa as very traditional BTW.
Can't wait to slap his ass around good.
Huh?
Atikosha
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འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


The knowledge imparted through the guru’s instructions that formerly was unknown (avidyā) is vidyā.


—Treasury of the Supreme Vehicle, Longchenpa.

Crazywisdom
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Re: Mahamudra in the Modern World

Post by Crazywisdom » Wed Apr 29, 2015 3:25 pm

I have a fantastic new thingy I'll call it "Vajrayana." It will have four initiations, deities to visualize, mantras and yoga methods according to a text that lays out the path clearly. I'll call it a "tantra". We will inhabit a magical land called The West Coast with snow mountains, lotus lakes and beautiful dakini like women everywhere. It will be so awesome!!! Who's a joiner?
Delete my account

Crazywisdom
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Re: Mahamudra in the Modern World

Post by Crazywisdom » Wed Apr 29, 2015 3:25 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Crazywisdom wrote:
Sherlock wrote:Why are you so enamoured with Chogyam Trungpa when you have no possibility of receiving teachings from him? Did he authorize any of these students to teach Mahamudra or Dzogchen in their entirety?

Tony Duff is also a student of Trungpa and presents himself and Trungpa as very traditional BTW.
Can't wait to slap his ass around good.
Huh?
TD is a big wonky looney.
Delete my account

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conebeckham
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Re: Mahamudra in the Modern World

Post by conebeckham » Wed Apr 29, 2015 3:27 pm

Crazywisdom wrote:I have a fantastic new thingy I'll call it "Vajrayana." It will have four initiations, deities to visualize, mantras and yoga methods according to a text that lays out the path clearly. I'll call it a "tantra". We will inhabit a magical land called The West Coast with snow mountains, lotus lakes and beautiful dakini like women everywhere. It will be so awesome!!! Who's a joiner?
I'll have whatever he's having, 'cuz it must be good!
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

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Malcolm
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Re: Mahamudra in the Modern World

Post by Malcolm » Wed Apr 29, 2015 3:34 pm

Crazywisdom wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
Huh?
TD is a big wonky looney.
Do tell...
Atikosha
Tibetan Medicine Blog
Sudarsana Mandala, Tibetan Medicine and Herbs
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


The knowledge imparted through the guru’s instructions that formerly was unknown (avidyā) is vidyā.


—Treasury of the Supreme Vehicle, Longchenpa.

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Challenge23
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Re: Mahamudra in the Modern World

Post by Challenge23 » Wed Apr 29, 2015 3:55 pm

Malcolm wrote:
dharmagoat wrote:
Malcolm wrote:A promise of happiness underlies all successful marketing.
Doesn't the Buddha promise happiness too?
He does not make promises of that kind. But what he does say is that if you follow the Dharma, you can discover total freedom from suffering. If you want to call that happiness, ok. But it is more like describing absence of disease as health.
Then where does the happiness come in? How your point squared with the Four Immeasurables?
The Four Immeasurables wrote:May all beings have happiness
and the cause of happiness.

May they be free of suffering
and the cause of suffering.

May they never be dissociated from
the supreme happiness without suffering.

May they remain in boundless equanimity
free from both attachment to relatives
and hatred of enemies.
IN THIS BOOK IT IS SPOKEN OF THE SEPHIROTH & THE PATHS, OF SPIRITS & CONJURATIONS, OF GODS, SPHERES, PLANES & MANY OTHER THINGS WHICH MAY OR MAY NOT EXIST. IT IS IMMATERIAL WHETHER THEY EXIST OR NOT. BY DOING CERTAIN THINGS CERTAIN RESULTS FOLLOW; STUDENTS ARE MOST EARNESTLY WARNED AGAINST ATTRIBUTING OBJECTIVE REALITY OR PHILOSOPHICAL VALIDITY TO ANY OF THEM.

Wagner, Eric; Wilson, Robert Anton (2004-12-01). An Insider's Guide to Robert Anton Wilson (Kindle Locations 1626-1629). New Falcon Publications. Kindle Edition., quoting from Alister Crowley

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Malcolm
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Re: Mahamudra in the Modern World

Post by Malcolm » Wed Apr 29, 2015 4:01 pm

Quite well. Mundane happiness is the result of virtuous karma; suffering the result of non-virtue, supreme happiness means nirvana.

Challenge23 wrote:
Then where does the happiness come in? How your point squared with the Four Immeasurables?
The Four Immeasurables wrote:May all beings have happiness
and the cause of happiness.

May they be free of suffering
and the cause of suffering.

May they never be dissociated from
the supreme happiness without suffering.

May they remain in boundless equanimity
free from both attachment to relatives
and hatred of enemies.
Atikosha
Tibetan Medicine Blog
Sudarsana Mandala, Tibetan Medicine and Herbs
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


The knowledge imparted through the guru’s instructions that formerly was unknown (avidyā) is vidyā.


—Treasury of the Supreme Vehicle, Longchenpa.

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Mahamudra in the Modern World

Post by dzogchungpa » Wed Apr 29, 2015 4:14 pm

Crazywisdom wrote:I have a fantastic new thingy I'll call it "Vajrayana." It will have four initiations, deities to visualize, mantras and yoga methods according to a text that lays out the path clearly. I'll call it a "tantra". We will inhabit a magical land called The West Coast with snow mountains, lotus lakes and beautiful dakini like women everywhere. It will be so awesome!!! Who's a joiner?
I'm in. Where is this "West Coast" of which you speak?
It takes a great being to be daring enough to cultivate a bad reputation. - Dzongsar Jamyang Khyentse Rinpoche

Norwegian
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Re: Mahamudra in the Modern World

Post by Norwegian » Wed Apr 29, 2015 4:22 pm

Just to the left of Jambudvipa.

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Challenge23
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Re: Mahamudra in the Modern World

Post by Challenge23 » Wed Apr 29, 2015 4:24 pm

Malcolm wrote:Quite well. Mundane happiness is the result of virtuous karma; suffering the result of non-virtue, supreme happiness means nirvana.
But you just said that the Dharma will grant you freedom from suffering which is not the same as happiness. Are you saying that the result of the Dharma is not nirvana? Or are you saying that supreme happiness is not happiness? I swear I'm not trying to be pedantic here. I'm trying to pin down exactly what you are saying here.
IN THIS BOOK IT IS SPOKEN OF THE SEPHIROTH & THE PATHS, OF SPIRITS & CONJURATIONS, OF GODS, SPHERES, PLANES & MANY OTHER THINGS WHICH MAY OR MAY NOT EXIST. IT IS IMMATERIAL WHETHER THEY EXIST OR NOT. BY DOING CERTAIN THINGS CERTAIN RESULTS FOLLOW; STUDENTS ARE MOST EARNESTLY WARNED AGAINST ATTRIBUTING OBJECTIVE REALITY OR PHILOSOPHICAL VALIDITY TO ANY OF THEM.

Wagner, Eric; Wilson, Robert Anton (2004-12-01). An Insider's Guide to Robert Anton Wilson (Kindle Locations 1626-1629). New Falcon Publications. Kindle Edition., quoting from Alister Crowley

krodha
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Re: Mahamudra in the Modern World

Post by krodha » Wed Apr 29, 2015 4:32 pm

dzogchungpa wrote:
Crazywisdom wrote:I have a fantastic new thingy I'll call it "Vajrayana." It will have four initiations, deities to visualize, mantras and yoga methods according to a text that lays out the path clearly. I'll call it a "tantra". We will inhabit a magical land called The West Coast with snow mountains, lotus lakes and beautiful dakini like women everywhere. It will be so awesome!!! Who's a joiner?
I'm in. Where is this "West Coast" of which you speak?
The same west coast where all three of us live... except one of us won't get coffee with the other two.

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conebeckham
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Re: Mahamudra in the Modern World

Post by conebeckham » Wed Apr 29, 2015 4:35 pm

The four of us....and who went for coffee without me?
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Mahamudra in the Modern World

Post by dzogchungpa » Wed Apr 29, 2015 4:38 pm

Challenge23 wrote:
Malcolm wrote:Quite well. Mundane happiness is the result of virtuous karma; suffering the result of non-virtue, supreme happiness means nirvana.
But you just said that the Dharma will grant you freedom from suffering which is not the same as happiness. Are you saying that the result of the Dharma is not nirvana? Or are you saying that supreme happiness is not happiness? I swear I'm not trying to be pedantic here. I'm trying to pin down exactly what you are saying here.
C23, as it seems that my enamorment with CTR is well-known I might as well, inspired by your recent line of questioning, drop a little sound bite from "Warrior-King of Shambhala", where Hayward tells of CTR's response to a question he asked when he first saw him speak:
Like many people, I misunderstood the idea of transcending ego and thought that one had to get rid of ego—that ego had to somehow be demolished. So when questions were invited, through gritted teeth I asked, "Rinpoche, when you get rid of ego, what happens?" Although by then I had been involved in a spiritual search for some years, this question seemed to arise quite fresh, with no expectation. At the same time, it seemed to be a reflection of my continuing deep nihilism and fear. Rinpoche gave me a sweet, gentle, youthful smile, slightly shook his head, and replied, "There's something left, don't worry." He spoke directly to me with warmth and tenderness, and he somehow caught my underlying doubt as to whether there is any true reality at all, beyond surface appearances. With that, I was hooked.
Last edited by dzogchungpa on Wed Apr 29, 2015 4:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
It takes a great being to be daring enough to cultivate a bad reputation. - Dzongsar Jamyang Khyentse Rinpoche

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Mahamudra in the Modern World

Post by dzogchungpa » Wed Apr 29, 2015 4:42 pm

asunthatneversets wrote:
dzogchungpa wrote:
Crazywisdom wrote:I have a fantastic new thingy I'll call it "Vajrayana." It will have four initiations, deities to visualize, mantras and yoga methods according to a text that lays out the path clearly. I'll call it a "tantra". We will inhabit a magical land called The West Coast with snow mountains, lotus lakes and beautiful dakini like women everywhere. It will be so awesome!!! Who's a joiner?
I'm in. Where is this "West Coast" of which you speak?
The same west coast where all three of us live... except one of us won't get coffee with the other two.
Really? Where are all the dakini like women? :smile:

Let me think about the coffee. :focus:
It takes a great being to be daring enough to cultivate a bad reputation. - Dzongsar Jamyang Khyentse Rinpoche

krodha
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Re: Mahamudra in the Modern World

Post by krodha » Wed Apr 29, 2015 4:48 pm

conebeckham wrote:The four of us....and who went for coffee without me?
Crazywisdom and I quite a few times, you're more than welcome to join!

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smcj
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Re: Mahamudra in the Modern World

Post by smcj » Wed Apr 29, 2015 4:51 pm

Or are you saying that supreme happiness is not happiness?
It is not a type of normal happiness per se. Was Milarepa "happy"? Well yes and no. His circumstances certainly were not conducive to happiness, but he was.
Last edited by smcj on Wed Apr 29, 2015 4:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against Lama abuse.
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In the strangest of places if you look at it right.
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Malcolm
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Re: Mahamudra in the Modern World

Post by Malcolm » Wed Apr 29, 2015 4:52 pm

Challenge23 wrote:
Malcolm wrote:Quite well. Mundane happiness is the result of virtuous karma; suffering the result of non-virtue, supreme happiness means nirvana.
But you just said that the Dharma will grant you freedom from suffering which is not the same as happiness. Are you saying that the result of the Dharma is not nirvana? Or are you saying that supreme happiness is not happiness? I swear I'm not trying to be pedantic here. I'm trying to pin down exactly what you are saying here.
Happiness is are those conditions in which there is an absence of suffering. Supreme happiness is nirvana, in which there is a total absence of suffering.
Atikosha
Tibetan Medicine Blog
Sudarsana Mandala, Tibetan Medicine and Herbs
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


The knowledge imparted through the guru’s instructions that formerly was unknown (avidyā) is vidyā.


—Treasury of the Supreme Vehicle, Longchenpa.

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Re: Mahamudra in the Modern World

Post by Bakmoon » Wed Apr 29, 2015 7:01 pm

Crazywisdom wrote:Buddha is not most people. He is precise to distinguish a liberated state from a state of bondage with a shit eating grin..
We aren't talking about a liberated state, but about the word Sukha and whether or not we can translate it as happiness. You said the word happiness corresponds to Prīti/Pīti, not to Sukha, but I disagree because the description you give for Sukha sounds to me like it falls within the meaning of the word happiness.

Crazywisdom
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Re: Mahamudra in the Modern World

Post by Crazywisdom » Wed Apr 29, 2015 7:07 pm

dzogchungpa wrote:
Crazywisdom wrote:I have a fantastic new thingy I'll call it "Vajrayana." It will have four initiations, deities to visualize, mantras and yoga methods according to a text that lays out the path clearly. I'll call it a "tantra". We will inhabit a magical land called The West Coast with snow mountains, lotus lakes and beautiful dakini like women everywhere. It will be so awesome!!! Who's a joiner?
I'm in. Where is this "West Coast" of which you speak?
On the Northwest Corner of New Uddiyana.
Delete my account

Crazywisdom
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Re: Mahamudra in the Modern World

Post by Crazywisdom » Wed Apr 29, 2015 7:09 pm

Bakmoon wrote:
Crazywisdom wrote:Buddha is not most people. He is precise to distinguish a liberated state from a state of bondage with a shit eating grin..
We aren't talking about a liberated state, but about the word Sukha and whether or not we can translate it as happiness. You said the word happiness corresponds to Prīti/Pīti, not to Sukha, but I disagree because the description you give for Sukha sounds to me like it falls within the meaning of the word happiness.
Buddha had a word for happiness and it was piti. It's stops at the third jhana. Sukha is the relief from the pain of samsara. That's the difference. If you want to glom terms together because you think that's awesome then go ahead, but Buddha was precise to distinguish inner experiences especially the transient from the non-arising...
Delete my account

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