84 Mahasiddhas

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kalden yungdrung
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84 Mahasiddhas

Post by kalden yungdrung » Thu Jul 09, 2015 6:31 am

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THE CITY OF MAHASIDDHAS

The city of Gorakhpur https://www.google.nl/maps/place/Gorakh ... 7fdcc6bfa2 in India keeps a secret from ancient times, a temple with 84 statues of outstanding beauty and mystic significance. Each one different yet impeccably dressed in siddha garments and each with the hair tied up in a topknot, folded in an individual design and pattern. The 84 figures of human size are seated in a circle inside a large temple hall. A spectacular view!

IMAGES OF THE 84 MAHASIDDHAS, BY AN INDIAN ARTIST.
The temple is mainly dedicated to the tantric siddha Guru Gorakhnath, the mahayogi of the Nath lineage revered as an incarnation of Shiva. The city was a part of the Koshla kingdom of Lord Rama during the Vedic period and in the 12th century the city became the center for Guru Gorakhnath.

The 84 mahasiddhas are connected to an extremely broad-minded world view that every situation in life is workable and can be utilized and transformed into total freedom.

Looking through their biographies and life examples, the mahasiddhas came from various background, from beggars to kings. One of the masters was a carpenter, another a tailor. One a renunciant, another a family man with children. One thing uniting them all is the fact that they demonstrated true freedom of mind, and that enlightenment is possible in a single lifetime.
Names of the 84 mahasiddhas from , according to the Abhayadatta Sri Tradition. Many Sanskrit names of the this tradition had to be reconstructed and are perhaps not. Several of the Tibetan lineages of Buddhism originate from Tibetans traveling to India to meet an enlightened master, a mahasiddha.

The mahasiddhas are 80 male and 4 female masters. Please, take the to read the names of the masters. Some have very interesting meaning:

Acinta, the “Avaricious Hermit”
Ajogi, the “Rejected Wastrel”
Anangapa, the “Handsome Fool”
Aryadeva (Karnaripa), the “One-Eyed”
Babhaha, the Lover”
Bhadrapa, the “Exclusive Brahmin”
Bhandepa, the “Envious God”
Bhiksanapa, “Siddha Two-Teeth”
Bhusuku (Shantideva), the “Idle Monk”
Camaripa, the “Divine Cobbler”
Champaka, the “Flower King”
Carbaripa (Carpati) “the Petrifyer”
Catrapa, the “Lucky Beggar”
Caurangipa, “the Dismembered Stepson”
Celukapa, the “Revitalized Drone”
Darikapa, the “Slave-King of the Temple Whore”
Dengipa, the “Courtesan’s Brahmin Slave”
Dhahulipa, the “Blistered Rope-Maker”
Dharmapa, the “Eternal” (c.900 CE)
Dhilipa, the “Epicurean Merchant”
Dhobipa, the “Wise Washerman”
Dhokaripa, the “Bowl-Bearer”
Dombipa Heruka, the “Tiger Rider”
Dukhandi, the “Scavenger”
Ghantapa, the “Celibate Bell-Ringer”
Gharbari or Gharbaripa, the “Contrite”
Godhuripa, the “Bird Catcher”
Goraksha, the “Immortal Cowherd”
Indrabhuti, the “Enlightened Siddha-King”
Jalandhara, the “Dakini’s Chosen One”
Jayananda, the “Crow Master”
Jogipa, the “Siddha-Pilgrim”
Kalapa, the “Handsome Madman”
Kamparipa, the “Blacksmith”
Kambala (Lavapa), the “Black-Blanket-Clad Yogin”)
Kanakhala, the younger Severed-Headed Sister
Kanhapa (Krishnacharya), the “Dark Siddha”
Kankana, the “Siddha-King”
Kankaripa, the “Lovelorn Widower”
Kantalipa, the “Ragman-Tailor”
Kapalapa, the “Skull Bearer”
Khadgapa, the “Fearless Thief”
Kilakilapa, the “Exiled Loud-Mouth”
Kirapalapa (Kilapa), the “Repentant Conqueror”
Kokilipa, the “Complacent Aesthete”
Kotalipa (or Tog tse pa, the “Peasant Guru”
Kucipa, the “Goitre-Necked Yogin”
Kukkuripa, (late 9th/10th Century), the “Dog Lover”
Kumbharipa, “the Potter”; Laksminkara, “The Mad Princess”
Lilapa, the “Royal Hedonist”
Lucikapa, the “Escapist”
Luipa, the “Fish-Gut Eater”
Mahipa, the “Greatest”
Manibhadra, the “Happy Housewife”
Medhini, the “Tired Farmer”
Mekhala, the Elder Severed-Headed Sister; Mekopa, the “Guru Dread-Stare”
Minapa, the “Fisherman”
Nagabodhi, the “Red-Horned Thief'”; Nagarjuna, “Philosopher and Alchemist”
Nalinapa, the “Self-Reliant Prince”
Nirgunapa, the “Enlightened
Naropa, the “Dauntless”
Pacaripa, the “Pastrycook”
Pankajapa, the “Lotus-Born Brahmin”
Putalipa, the “Mendicant Icon-Bearer”
Rahula, the “Rejuvenated Dotard”
Saraha, the “Great Brahmin”
Sakara or Saroruha
Samudra, the “Pearl Diver”
Śāntipa (or Ratnākaraśānti), the “Complacent Missionary”
Sarvabhaksa, the “Glutton”)
Savaripa, the “Hunter”, held to have incarnated in Drukpa Künleg
Syalipa, the “Jackal Yogin”; Tantepa, the “Gambler”
Tantipa, the “Senile Weaver”
Thaganapa, the “Compulsive Liar”
Tilopa, the “Great Renunciate” Udhilipa, the “Bird-Man”
Upanaha, the “Bootmaker”
Vinapa, the “Musician”
Virupa, the “Dakini Master”
Vyalipa, the “Courtesan’s Alchemist”. mudra, the “Pearl Diver”
Śāntipa (or Ratnākaraśānti), the “Complacent Missionary”
Sarvabhaksa, the “Glutton”)
Savaripa, the “Hunter”, held to have incarnated in Drukpa Künleg
Syalipa, the “Jackal Yogin”
Tantepa, the “Gambler”
Tantipa, the “Senile Weaver”
Thaganapa, the “Compulsive Liar”
Tilopa, the “Great Renunciate” Udhilipa, the “Bird-Man”
Upanaha, the “Bootmaker”
Vinapa, the “Musician”
Virupa, the “Dakini Master”
Vyalipa, the “Courtesan’s Alchemist”
Last edited by kalden yungdrung on Thu Jul 09, 2015 6:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 84 Mahasiddhas

Post by kalden yungdrung » Thu Jul 09, 2015 6:50 am

Tashi delek DW members,

Here in the Indian Mahamudra Tradition, is Dorje Chang / Vajradhara the Adi Buddha.

I have a few questions about this Tantric Deity.

- Is Vajradhara of Indian origin?
- Why is Vajradhara here the Adi Buddha and not Buddha Shakyamuni ?
- Vajradhara is that from an Indian Hindhu origin or a Buddhist source.
- If a Buddhist source, where did spoke the Buddha Shakyamuni about this ? ( I mean which Sutra of the Buddha Shakyamuni gives some elucidations about Vajradhara)
- What is the relationship between the Mahasiddhas and the Buddha Shakyamuni, both stem from northern India / Nepal and lived nearly at the same time.
- Why are not in Indian Mahamudra, inside their teachings the Abhi Dharma etc. , the teachings from the Theravada?
- Is there one adi Buddha or are there more ?
- I see Goraknath as a Mahasiddha here. What is the Adi Buddha from the Nath ?


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Re: 84 Mahasiddhas

Post by smcj » Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:17 am

Here in the Indian Mahamudra Tradition, is Dorje Chang / Vajradhara the Adi Buddha.
I'm going to expose my ignorance here.

Dorje Chang/Vajradhara is roughly equivalent in the Mahamudra traditions to the Adi Buddha in the Dzogchen traditions.

Dorje Chang/Vajradhara in the Mahamudra traditions is said to be the enlightenment of Sakyamuni as seen from the Vajrayana perspective. I don't know if the same can be said of Adi Buddha.

Ok, all you guys that actually know this stuff for real, please feel free to correct this. I don't mind learning stuff here at DW.
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Re: 84 Mahasiddhas

Post by dzoki » Thu Jul 09, 2015 9:13 am

kalden yungdrung wrote: - Is Vajradhara of Indian origin?
Yes Vajradhara is of Indian origin from the limited perspective of our history. He appears in Indian buddhist tantras such as Guhyasamaja.
kalden yungdrung wrote: - Why is Vajradhara here the Adi Buddha and not Buddha Shakyamuni ?
Adi Buddha is often confused with first Buddha or original Buddha (the one who is source of other buddhas), but it does not mean that. It means primordial Buddha and it is referring to our own primordial Buddha nature. Vajradhara is a symbol,
not some person or god sitting somewhere.
kalden yungdrung wrote:
- Vajradhara is that from an Indian Hindhu origin or a Buddhist source.
Vajradhara is clearly form Buddhist sources, as I mentioned above.
kalden yungdrung wrote:
- If a Buddhist source, where did spoke the Buddha Shakyamuni about this ? ( I mean which Sutra of the Buddha Shakyamuni gives some elucidations about Vajradhara)
I am not sure that there are any sutras attributed to Shakyamuni, where he speaks of Vajradhara, but maybe someone learned can answer this. There are tantras where Vajradhara appears, especially anuttarayogatantras,
but he also appears in lower tantras related to Vairochana (he is included in either Garbadhatu or Vajradhatu mandala, I don´t remember which one).
kalden yungdrung wrote:
- What is the relationship between the Mahasiddhas and the Buddha Shakyamuni, both stem from northern India / Nepal and lived nearly at the same time.
Mahasiddhas were followers of Shakyamuni´s teaching, they however lived much later, after the Buddha, most of them lived from 8th to 11th century. Several mahasiddhas revealed tantras from their contact with other buddha fields.
kalden yungdrung wrote:
- Why are not in Indian Mahamudra, inside their teachings the Abhi Dharma etc. , the teachings from the Theravada?
Indian Mahamudra is an upadesha teaching - this means it is essential instruction system based upon the realizations of its originators such as Saraha, Shavaripa and Tilopa. None of them were teachers in Sthaviravada/Theravada tradition,
so their teachings are not kept in that tradtion.
kalden yungdrung wrote:
- Is there one adi Buddha or are there more ?
Adi Buddha is a symbol, it is not a person, you might say that there is Vajradhara described in Anuttaratantras and Samantabhadra described in Mahayoga, Anuyoga and Atiyoga tantras, but in fact there is no difference between the two, the meaning of this symbol is just the same.
kalden yungdrung wrote:
- I see Goraknath as a Mahasiddha here. What is the Adi Buddha from the Nath ?
Nath is a hinduist movement, although heavily influenced by vajrayana buddhism, I don´t think they discuss anything like Adi Buddha. although Goraksha/ Goraknath is listed among the mahasiddhas of Buddhist tradition it is stated in the biographies, that he did not attain the siddhi of mahamudra, so he cannot be considered a true mahasiddha. You see the thing is that Hindus love to borrow anything from any other religion as long as they can utilize it to promote the glory of their own school (be it yoga, shaiva, vaishnava, tantra etc.). After the demise of Buddhadharma in India, followers of various Hindu schools took over Buddhist temples and in many places they even did not bother to remove
Buddhist statues, but just claimed that they are depictions of Hindu deities or Hindu teachers.

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Re: 84 Mahasiddhas

Post by Zhen Li » Thu Jul 09, 2015 3:28 pm

Does anyone know the mantras for the 84 Mahasiddhas?

I recall it being something fairly simple, like Om (name) hum, but can't quite recall.

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Re: 84 Mahasiddhas

Post by theanarchist » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:47 pm

There is a book about their life stories


http://www.amazon.com/Buddhas-Lions-Eig ... 0913546615

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Re: 84 Mahasiddhas

Post by Rakz » Fri Jul 10, 2015 12:58 am

So all these folks attained the rainbow body?

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Re: 84 Mahasiddhas

Post by theanarchist » Fri Jul 10, 2015 1:02 am

Not sure about that. The biographies don't give clear statements.

They just mainly say, "went to the realm of the dakinis"

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Re: 84 Mahasiddhas

Post by philji » Fri Jul 10, 2015 1:22 pm

A couple of years ago, Phakchok Rinpoche gave an empowerment of the 84 Mahasiddhas at Gomde UK. On his website for translated texts.(.lhasey lotsawa ) there is a sadhana for the 84 Mahasiddhas, which does require empowerment.

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Re: 84 Mahasiddhas

Post by philji » Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:32 am

A great article from Erik Pema Kunsang's online magazine.
http://levekunst.com/the-city-of-mahasiddhas/

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Re: 84 Mahasiddhas

Post by kalden yungdrung » Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:10 pm

Tashi delek DW members,

The Indian Mahasiddhas play an important role in the representation from Yoga.
This Yoga is also welknown in Tibet like:

- Tsalung Trulkor
- Tumo


So in India this Yoga became an independent style which was one time regrouped by Patanjali.

Now about the Mahasiddhas from India, many were Brahmins and Shiva adherents.
The thunderbolt from Indra is sure a symbol which is taken over in the Vajrayana and is from Indian origen.
So the Indian Yogis , at least not all of them had the Vajra as their symbol.
One of their symbols was the Trident of Shiva.
The Vishnu Yogis also do not use the Vajra from Indra in their practice.
Neither the Brahmins.

If the Mahasiddhas were devoted to Vajradhara that is what i greatly doubt.
The Mahasiddhas were yogis which did adhere different "Indian" Gods.

Many Indian Yogis and Mahasiddhas, were devoted to Shiva and His Tantras are in fact the source of the Yoga Tantras as well some Tantras in Tibet, which did not stem from the Nepali Shakyamuni Buddha.

But in Tibet this all was called Vajrayana and here the Buddha was Vajradhara.
Shiva is sure not Vajradhara i guess

So i guess Vajrayana is a mix of Indian Yoga and Buddhism with one source the Adi Buddha Vajradhara.

- So maybe Vajradhara did give to Indra as a present the / his Thunderbolt?

https://www.facebook.com/IndianDiplomac ... 2/?fref=nf


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Re: 84 Mahasiddhas

Post by philji » Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:50 pm

It is not correct to think that followers of Shiva were not Brahmins. As you can see from the link there are so many varieties of Shaivite. In Tamil Nadu which is the Shaivaite heartland, the devotees are staunch Brahmins.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaivism

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Re: 84 Mahasiddhas

Post by kalden yungdrung » Fri Jul 17, 2015 4:30 pm

philji wrote:It is not correct to think that followers of Shiva were not Brahmins. As you can see from the link there are so many varieties of Shaivite. In Tamil Nadu which is the Shaivaite heartland, the devotees are staunch Brahmins.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaivism
Tashi delek P,
It is not correct to think that followers of Shiva were not Brahmins.
Well i know for sure that in Benares , on one side of the Ganga, are the Vishnu adherents and on the other side are the Shiva adherents. I saw this one time in Benares during my stayment at the Buddhist University for Higher Studies.

Benares is a very important Hindhu place, Shiva did proclaim there the Medicin Tantras. Maybe also other Tantras (Yoga Tantras)?

I saw that they never meet each other on the same side of the river. That this is different with Brahmins and Shiva adherents , that is new for me.But i know that all Hindhus respect the creation, maintenance and destruction from their Kalpas. Also there are more Brahmas than one in the many universa.So the creation or Brahma is a very common accepted principel for all Hindhus as the base. Therefore i can believe / assume that Shiva adherents can also be devoted to Brahma.
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Re: 84 Mahasiddhas

Post by kalden yungdrung » Fri Jul 17, 2015 5:11 pm

kalden yungdrung wrote:Tashi delek DW members,


On the undermentioned link one can see that the Naths are undoubtly devoted to Shiva. They are also the founders of Hatha Yoga a system also known as Tsalung Trulkor in Tibet. I guess that many Tibetans make use of Hatha Yoga.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matsyendranath
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorakshanath
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Re: 84 Mahasiddhas

Post by kalden yungdrung » Sat Jul 18, 2015 10:32 am

smcj wrote:
Here in the Indian Mahamudra Tradition, is Dorje Chang / Vajradhara the Adi Buddha.
I'm going to expose my ignorance here.
Dorje Chang/Vajradhara is roughly equivalent in the Mahamudra traditions to the Adi Buddha in the Dzogchen traditions.
Dorje Chang (Sambhogakaya) will be adi regarding Tantra and in Dzogchen Kuntu Zangpo will be adi the Dharmakya. Well this is "roughly" different, i guess so.

Dorje Chang/Vajradhara in the Mahamudra traditions is said to be the enlightenment of Sakyamuni as seen from the Vajrayana perspective. I don't know if the same can be said of Adi Buddha.
Well, in Theravada, Vajradhara is quite unknown, so why should we accept this ? I mean on which "proves /facts/ logic etc." ? I can agree that Dorje Chang did explain in the guise of Sambhogakaya which stem from Dharmakaya.
So teachings go from Sambhogakaya which seems to be a "Body or kaya" If Buddha Shakyamuni did assume this Sambhogakyay body that is here the very question. Also taken in consideration that most of the Hindhus (Mahasiddhas) don't know Shakyamuni as their teacher.

- What is here the missing link?


Ok, all you guys that actually know this stuff for real, please feel free to correct this. I don't mind learning stuff here at DW.
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Re: 84 Mahasiddhas

Post by dzoki » Tue Jul 21, 2015 8:53 pm

kalden yungdrung wrote: The Mahasiddhas were yogis which did adhere different "Indian" Gods.
Where is the evidence for that?
kalden yungdrung wrote: Many Indian Yogis and Mahasiddhas, were devoted to Shiva and His Tantras are in fact the source of the Yoga Tantras as well some Tantras in Tibet, which did not stem from the Nepali Shakyamuni Buddha.
Again this is just a statement, without any evidence to support it.
kalden yungdrung wrote: But in Tibet this all was called Vajrayana and here the Buddha was Vajradhara.
Shiva is sure not Vajradhara i guess
You find Vajradhara also in Japanese Shingon buddhism. Vajrayana as welll as Vajradhara is a term that appears in Indian buddhist texts, of which sanskrit originals still exist (in Nepal). It is not that Tibetans invented something, they transmitted in Tibet what they have received form their Indian Gurus.
kalden yungdrung wrote: So i guess Vajrayana is a mix of Indian Yoga and Buddhism with one source the Adi Buddha Vajradhara.
There is no such thing as "Indian Yoga" there are many different systems of yoga in India which share some parts and elements while they differ in other parts among themselves.
Also different buddhist tantras have different source and origin, Vajradhara, Shakyamuni, Vajrasattva, Vajrapani, etc. In any case as I said abode Vajradhara is not any kind of person that exists somewhere, so the notion of him donating a vajra to Indra is quite strange. Vajradhara is symbol of natural strate. So Vajradhara or Samantabhadra being the narrator of tantra is just to show that the particular tantra arose as an expression of dharmakaya.

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Re: 84 Mahasiddhas

Post by kalden yungdrung » Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:07 pm

dzoki wrote:
kalden yungdrung wrote: The Mahasiddhas were yogis which did adhere different "Indian" Gods.
Where is the evidence for that?
kalden yungdrung wrote: Many Indian Yogis and Mahasiddhas, were devoted to Shiva and His Tantras are in fact the source of the Yoga Tantras as well some Tantras in Tibet, which did not stem from the Nepali Shakyamuni Buddha.
Again this is just a statement, without any evidence to support it.
KY : Nath tradition is devoted to Shiva and some of them belong to the Indian 84 Mahasiddhas.
kalden yungdrung wrote: But in Tibet this all was called Vajrayana and here the Buddha was Vajradhara.
Shiva is sure not Vajradhara i guess
You find Vajradhara also in Japanese Shingon buddhism. Vajrayana as welll as Vajradhara is a term that appears in Indian buddhist texts, of which sanskrit originals still exist (in Nepal). It is not that Tibetans invented something, they transmitted in Tibet what they have received form their Indian Gurus.
KY: No Vajra is here the symbol of Vajra Dhara and this symbol is of Indian origen, that is right. We also see that this Vajra was the attribute from Guru Rinpoche. They all came from the same area, in northern India and many of them were Hindhus as well Buddhists. So they share sure some symbols and that came to Tibet.
But i would also like to know what a Hindhu would say about the Indra thunderbolt story.

kalden yungdrung wrote: So i guess Vajrayana is a mix of Indian Yoga and Buddhism with one source the Adi Buddha Vajradhara.
There is no such thing as "Indian Yoga" there are many different systems of yoga in India which share some parts and elements while they differ in other parts among themselves.
KY: Well call the Yoga of the Naths then Hatha Yoga.

Also different buddhist tantras have different source and origin, Vajradhara, Shakyamuni, Vajrasattva, Vajrapani, etc. In any case as I said abode Vajradhara is not any kind of person that exists somewhere, so the notion of him donating a vajra to Indra is quite strange. Vajradhara is symbol of natural strate. So Vajradhara or Samantabhadra being the narrator of tantra is just to show that the particular tantra arose as an expression of dharmakaya.
KY: Want to add here that some Tibetan Tantras are sure not explained or initiated by the Buddha Shakyamuni:
Samvara Tantra / Varahi Tantra / Kalachakra Tantra.
So in these Tantras who is the Dharmakaya and Sambhogakaya aspect ?

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Re: 84 Mahasiddhas

Post by BrianG » Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:05 am

kalden yungdrung wrote: KY : Nath tradition is devoted to Shiva and some of them belong to the Indian 84 Mahasiddhas.
The history of the Nath tradition is very complex, and no, they were not all devoted to Shiva. Some claim they converted from Buddhism to Shiva worship after the Muslim invasion of eastern India. This is supported by the existence of pre 12th century Buddhist songs of realization that were written by Nath Siddhas. My personal belief is that some were Buddhist, some were Saivite, some were both.
KY: Want to add here that some Tibetan Tantras are sure not explained or initiated by the Buddha Shakyamuni:
Samvara Tantra / Varahi Tantra / Kalachakra Tantra.
These were explained by the Buddha Shakyamuni, and they are Indian in origin, not Tibetan, with the possible exception of Kalachakra, which could be either from Afghanistan or Shambhala.
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Re: 84 Mahasiddhas

Post by kalden yungdrung » Thu Jul 23, 2015 8:20 am

BrianG wrote:
KY: Want to add here that some Tibetan Tantras are sure not explained or initiated by the Buddha Shakyamuni:
Samvara Tantra / Varahi Tantra / Kalachakra Tantra.
These were explained by the Buddha Shakyamuni, and they are Indian in origin, not Tibetan, with the possible exception of Kalachakra, which could be either from Afghanistan or Shambhala.

According my sources are the lineages from the above mentioned Tantra's :

Samvara
Saraha - Nagaryuna- Shavari - Luipa - Darikapa - Vajragantha - Kumarapa - Jalandhara - Kanha - Guhyapa - Vijaya - Tilopa - Naropa - Shantipa - Maitripa - Pham Thying - Bodhibadra - Vagishvarakirti - Marpa .

Varahi
Rambala - Lakshminkara - Virupa - Maitripa - Dong ngar ba - Paindapatika - Hamu kar po

Kalachakra
Kulika - Celuka - Pindopa - Manjukirti - Ye rang pa.

Sure all these Tantras stem from India and not from Tibet.
Tibet owns also Tantra's but they are from the pre Buddhist time.

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