does non judgement transcend enlightenment?

White Lotus
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Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:56 pm

does non judgement transcend enlightenment?

Postby White Lotus » Sat Jun 11, 2016 7:35 pm

in mahamudra, dzogchen and zen one is encouraged to embrace non judgement. does non judgement go beyond enlightenment?
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.

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davyji
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Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2010 2:30 pm
Location: Intermountain West USA

Re: does non judgement transcend enlightenment?

Postby davyji » Sun Jun 12, 2016 12:29 am

Depends on whether people equate distinction/discernment with being judgemental.
The former is critical thinking and valuable , while being judgemental is an affliction.

Not sure i understand the question yet say no to your question.

dave
Working with the raw elements (air earth fire water space)is a process of connecting with the external elements and internalizing their qualities.
Ultimately we can merge with the element. We connect the external quality with the internal quality and then dissolve the distinctions.
Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche

The essence of the elements is light
ChNN

White Lotus
Posts: 966
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:56 pm

Re: does non judgement transcend enlightenment?

Postby White Lotus » Sun Jun 12, 2016 3:26 pm

thanks dave, enlightenment is complete just as it is, right now. non discrimination complicates what is simple. Its artificial
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.

Saoshun
Posts: 638
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2014 11:16 pm

Re: does non judgement transcend enlightenment?

Postby Saoshun » Sun Jun 12, 2016 4:30 pm

White Lotus wrote:in mahamudra, dzogchen and zen one is encouraged to embrace non judgement. does non judgement go beyond enlightenment?


Not really. Traditions expect prajna or wisdom from their practitioners rather then judging. Judging is good for your survival but useless in deeper understanding of life. so on one level it's okay to judge if not you will not live long really, but if you want realize yourself you need to go deep into phenomena and judging will prevent that because you set wall before the line you need to cross to grasp deeper understanding of life.

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davyji
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Location: Intermountain West USA

Re: does non judgement transcend enlightenment?

Postby davyji » Sun Jun 12, 2016 6:51 pm

Saoshun wrote:
White Lotus wrote:in mahamudra, dzogchen and zen one is encouraged to embrace non judgement. does non judgement go beyond enlightenment?


Not really. Traditions expect prajna or wisdom from their practitioners rather then judging. Judging is good for your survival but useless in deeper understanding of life. so on one level it's okay to judge if not you will not live long really, but if you want realize yourself you need to go deep into phenomena and judging will prevent that because you set wall before the line you need to cross to grasp deeper understanding of life.


Not really, is not necessary to go deep into phenomena to realize your self, you just need to go directly into your self. Not judge ourself first.

dave
Working with the raw elements (air earth fire water space)is a process of connecting with the external elements and internalizing their qualities.
Ultimately we can merge with the element. We connect the external quality with the internal quality and then dissolve the distinctions.
Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche

The essence of the elements is light
ChNN

Saoshun
Posts: 638
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2014 11:16 pm

Re: does non judgement transcend enlightenment?

Postby Saoshun » Sun Jun 12, 2016 7:20 pm

Phenomena and yourself are not separable so you can not go directly to yourself the way you describing it. You need wisdom to penetrate the phenomena first. Even Hui Neng penetrate first phenomena first before attaining full realization. :bow:

White Lotus
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Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:56 pm

Re: does non judgement transcend enlightenment?

Postby White Lotus » Sun Jun 12, 2016 10:21 pm

i have no nature, but am all things except myself. i am awake.
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.

White Lotus
Posts: 966
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:56 pm

Re: does non judgement transcend enlightenment?

Postby White Lotus » Thu Jun 23, 2016 3:00 pm

i have no nature, there is only buddha nature. no seer, only seen. no person, only observed observing. is there any need to talk about these things? absolutely none. how can i improve what is already perfect. why do we teach buddhas? in order that they may know they are buddhas. this.
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.


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