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does non judgement transcend enlightenment?

Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 7:35 pm
by White Lotus
in mahamudra, dzogchen and zen one is encouraged to embrace non judgement. does non judgement go beyond enlightenment?

Re: does non judgement transcend enlightenment?

Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 12:29 am
by davyji
Depends on whether people equate distinction/discernment with being judgemental.
The former is critical thinking and valuable , while being judgemental is an affliction.

Not sure i understand the question yet say no to your question.

dave

Re: does non judgement transcend enlightenment?

Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 3:26 pm
by White Lotus
thanks dave, enlightenment is complete just as it is, right now. non discrimination complicates what is simple. Its artificial

Re: does non judgement transcend enlightenment?

Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 4:30 pm
by Saoshun
White Lotus wrote:in mahamudra, dzogchen and zen one is encouraged to embrace non judgement. does non judgement go beyond enlightenment?
Not really. Traditions expect prajna or wisdom from their practitioners rather then judging. Judging is good for your survival but useless in deeper understanding of life. so on one level it's okay to judge if not you will not live long really, but if you want realize yourself you need to go deep into phenomena and judging will prevent that because you set wall before the line you need to cross to grasp deeper understanding of life.

Re: does non judgement transcend enlightenment?

Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 6:51 pm
by davyji
Saoshun wrote:
White Lotus wrote:in mahamudra, dzogchen and zen one is encouraged to embrace non judgement. does non judgement go beyond enlightenment?
Not really. Traditions expect prajna or wisdom from their practitioners rather then judging. Judging is good for your survival but useless in deeper understanding of life. so on one level it's okay to judge if not you will not live long really, but if you want realize yourself you need to go deep into phenomena and judging will prevent that because you set wall before the line you need to cross to grasp deeper understanding of life.
Not really, is not necessary to go deep into phenomena to realize your self, you just need to go directly into your self. Not judge ourself first.

dave

Re: does non judgement transcend enlightenment?

Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 7:20 pm
by Saoshun
Phenomena and yourself are not separable so you can not go directly to yourself the way you describing it. You need wisdom to penetrate the phenomena first. Even Hui Neng penetrate first phenomena first before attaining full realization. :bow:

Re: does non judgement transcend enlightenment?

Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 10:21 pm
by White Lotus
i have no nature, but am all things except myself. i am awake.

Re: does non judgement transcend enlightenment?

Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 3:00 pm
by White Lotus
i have no nature, there is only buddha nature. no seer, only seen. no person, only observed observing. is there any need to talk about these things? absolutely none. how can i improve what is already perfect. why do we teach buddhas? in order that they may know they are buddhas. this.