Loch Kelly

philji
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Loch Kelly

Postby philji » Tue Aug 09, 2016 9:44 pm

A friend suggested I look at some video teachings by Loch Kelly who apparently has been given authorisation to teach sutra mahamudra.
I have had a quick peek but not too impressed yet. Are others familiar with him?

Knotty Veneer
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Re: Loch Kelly

Postby Knotty Veneer » Wed Aug 10, 2016 8:29 am

philji wrote:A friend suggested I look at some video teachings by Loch Kelly who apparently has been given authorisation to teach sutra mahamudra.
I have had a quick peek but not too impressed yet. Are others familiar with him?


Looking at his website, he seems to be offering his own kinda syncretic teachings, taking in vipassana, mahamudra, therapy. Nothing terribly traditional so if that's what you are looking for I'd say he's not the place to start. He seems to have gotten some sort of authorization from Mingyur Rinpoche, so I'd maybe check with his org.

Can't say the site raises any obvious red flags particularly. Might be worth a look but I doubt a source for traditional sutra mahamudra. Looks like any number of Western teachers: Goldstein, Surya Das, Salzberg etc.
“Trump’s grand and vulgar self-absorption is inviting all of us to examine our own selfishness. His ignorance calls us to attend to our own blind spots. The fears that he stokes and the isolation he promotes goad us to be braver, more generous.” - James S. Gordon.

Simon E.
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Re: Loch Kelly

Postby Simon E. » Wed Aug 10, 2016 8:36 am

When I saw the thread title I wondered if it was about a body of water in Scotland or Ireland... :smile:

Anyway :focus:
" My heart's in the Highlands
my heart is not here.
My heart's in the Highlands
chasing the deer."

Robert V.C. Burns.

Kim
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Re: Loch Kelly

Postby Kim » Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:11 am

I've listened to several of Loch's talks and interviews, read his book and am listening to his mp3's. I've changed emails with him too. I think that among a very orthodox dharma field he is a welcome addition. He has studied with Tulku Urgyen and received sutra mahamudra permission from Mingyur. He has also been asked to teach by Adyashanti, although I think in that case it should have gone the other way around, ha.

"I have studied and practiced Mingyur, Tulku Urgyen, Tsoknyi and read the classics and have tried to translate these teachings into the contemporary forms I share. I have been asked to teach Sutra Mahamudra by Mingyur many years ago and so I do feel that I get most everything they are pointing to and so I trying to convey but I try to update them where the practices at times seem archaic and too formal and miss the how-to pieces which I try to fill in in different ways."


Yeah, meditaton teaching-wise he is wonderful. I haven't listened to all of his cd so I don't yet know whether he points to zero-dimensional mind or just gives three-dimensional/open space practices.

I invited him to teach in my country too but once he informed me of his fee demands all I could say was, "That's not OK for any dharma teacher". He got offended and never replied to me again.
”I don't think we need even a scrap of Tibetan culture, including vajrayana buddhism, in order to recognise the nature of mind. If somebody walks in of the street here who never heard of Tibet or Tibetan buddhism and has a natural antipathy to anything other than American culture, is given the essence of dzogchen, there's no reason why that person should not attain immediately the same state that we have reached, having gone through that whole circuit of oriental culture and Tibetan buddhism.” - Keith Dowman

philji
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Re: Loch Kelly

Postby philji » Wed Aug 10, 2016 12:17 pm

I am not too comfortable with his comments.. "I do feel that I get most everything they are pointing to and so I trying to convey but I try to update them where the practices at times seem archaic and too formal and miss the how-to pieces which I try to fill in in different ways."
As for fees well????!!!!

Simon E.
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Re: Loch Kelly

Postby Simon E. » Wed Aug 10, 2016 12:24 pm

Kim wrote:I've listened to several of Loch's talks and interviews, read his book and am listening to his mp3's. I've changed emails with him too. I think that among a very orthodox dharma field he is a welcome addition. He has studied with Tulku Urgyen and received sutra mahamudra permission from Mingyur. He has also been asked to teach by Adyashanti, although I think in that case it should have gone the other way around, ha.

"I have studied and practiced Mingyur, Tulku Urgyen, Tsoknyi and read the classics and have tried to translate these teachings into the contemporary forms I share. I have been asked to teach Sutra Mahamudra by Mingyur many years ago and so I do feel that I get most everything they are pointing to and so I trying to convey but I try to update them where the practices at times seem archaic and too formal and miss the how-to pieces which I try to fill in in different ways."


Yeah, meditaton teaching-wise he is wonderful. I haven't listened to all of his cd so I don't yet know whether he points to zero-dimensional mind or just gives three-dimensional/open space practices.

I invited him to teach in my country too but once he informed me of his fee demands all I could say was, "That's not OK for any dharma teacher". He got offended and never replied to me again.

" He has been asked to teach by Adyashanti"...'nuff said. One pseudo purveyor of Dharma-Lite promoting another I suspect.
" My heart's in the Highlands
my heart is not here.
My heart's in the Highlands
chasing the deer."

Robert V.C. Burns.

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Malcolm
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Re: Loch Kelly

Postby Malcolm » Wed Aug 10, 2016 12:49 pm

Kim wrote:I
I invited him to teach in my country too but once he informed me of his fee demands all I could say was, "That's not OK for any dharma teacher". He got offended and never replied to me again.



    [P]ermitting someone with gifts in the gate,
    stopping the one without gifts outside the gate–
    supporting relatives by feeding them with devotional offerings;
    Also leave great meditator’s Dharma and go!

— Jetsun Dragpa Gyaltsen
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Re: Loch Kelly

Postby Kim » Wed Aug 10, 2016 12:53 pm

philji wrote:I am not too comfortable with his comments.. "I do feel that I get most everything they are pointing to and so I trying to convey but I try to update them where the practices at times seem archaic and too formal and miss the how-to pieces which I try to fill in in different ways."
As for fees well????!!!!


I'd recommend anyone to check out how he teaches mahamudra practices.

But for sure, there is a business interest there. He charges 7700 USD per weekend, plus flights, hotels and meals. H e said it's perfectly fine with organisers in the US. He failed to understand that in remote European countries like the one where I live, he is practically unknown so taking a financial responsibility like that wasn't something I wanted to take. In regards to his fee, there was no mention of charity projects etc. He also mentioned his teacher, Mingyur, charges more than him. I don't know what to make of that.
”I don't think we need even a scrap of Tibetan culture, including vajrayana buddhism, in order to recognise the nature of mind. If somebody walks in of the street here who never heard of Tibet or Tibetan buddhism and has a natural antipathy to anything other than American culture, is given the essence of dzogchen, there's no reason why that person should not attain immediately the same state that we have reached, having gone through that whole circuit of oriental culture and Tibetan buddhism.” - Keith Dowman

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Re: Loch Kelly

Postby philji » Wed Aug 10, 2016 2:20 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Kim wrote:I
I invited him to teach in my country too but once he informed me of his fee demands all I could say was, "That's not OK for any dharma teacher". He got offended and never replied to me again.



    [P]ermitting someone with gifts in the gate,
    stopping the one without gifts outside the gate–
    supporting relatives by feeding them with devotional offerings;
    Also leave great meditator’s Dharma and go!

— Jetsun Dragpa Gyaltsen


:cheers:

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Re: Loch Kelly

Postby treehuggingoctopus » Wed Aug 10, 2016 3:14 pm

Kim wrote:He charges 7700 USD per weekend, plus flights, hotels and meals.


Sounds like a horrible joke to me, in the US or elsewhere.
. . . there they saw a rock! But it wasn't a rock . . .

philji
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Re: Loch Kelly

Postby philji » Wed Aug 10, 2016 4:22 pm

I have now discovered that his authorisation to teach by Mingyur Rinpoche is going to be removed from his website...a misunderstanding he says!!!!

Knotty Veneer
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Re: Loch Kelly

Postby Knotty Veneer » Wed Aug 10, 2016 4:27 pm

philji wrote:I have now discovered that his authorisation to teach by Mingyur Rinpoche is going to be removed from his website...a misunderstanding he says!!!!


Probably worked well while Mingyur R was in retreat and prospective students could not check up. I think Lama Rabsang in Palpung Changchub Dargyeling in Brynmawr Wales actually has authorisation from Mingyur R to teach mahamudra. I'd go with him if I were you.
“Trump’s grand and vulgar self-absorption is inviting all of us to examine our own selfishness. His ignorance calls us to attend to our own blind spots. The fears that he stokes and the isolation he promotes goad us to be braver, more generous.” - James S. Gordon.

Simon E.
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Re: Loch Kelly

Postby Simon E. » Wed Aug 10, 2016 4:41 pm

philji wrote:I have now discovered that his authorisation to teach by Mingyur Rinpoche is going to be removed from his website...a misunderstanding he says!!!!



Quelle surprise..
" My heart's in the Highlands
my heart is not here.
My heart's in the Highlands
chasing the deer."

Robert V.C. Burns.

philji
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Re: Loch Kelly

Postby philji » Wed Aug 10, 2016 4:57 pm

Knotty Veneer wrote:
philji wrote:I have now discovered that his authorisation to teach by Mingyur Rinpoche is going to be removed from his website...a misunderstanding he says!!!!


Probably worked well while Mingyur R was in retreat and prospective students could not check up. I think Lama Rabsang in Palpung Changchub Dargyeling in Brynmawr Wales actually has authorisation from Mingyur R to teach mahamudra. I'd go with him if I were you.


I was taught mahamudra by both Mingyur Rinpoche and Lama Rabsang...also later by Phakchok Rinpoche( ongoing). :smile:

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Re: Loch Kelly

Postby Kim » Wed Aug 10, 2016 5:49 pm

philji wrote:I have now discovered that his authorisation to teach by Mingyur Rinpoche is going to be removed from his website...a misunderstanding he says!!!!


How? What? How the hell can anyone misunderstand a thing like that... Loch said it was misunderstanding himself? Where? A quote?
”I don't think we need even a scrap of Tibetan culture, including vajrayana buddhism, in order to recognise the nature of mind. If somebody walks in of the street here who never heard of Tibet or Tibetan buddhism and has a natural antipathy to anything other than American culture, is given the essence of dzogchen, there's no reason why that person should not attain immediately the same state that we have reached, having gone through that whole circuit of oriental culture and Tibetan buddhism.” - Keith Dowman

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Malcolm
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Re: Loch Kelly

Postby Malcolm » Wed Aug 10, 2016 6:00 pm

Kim wrote:
philji wrote:I am not too comfortable with his comments.. "I do feel that I get most everything they are pointing to and so I trying to convey but I try to update them where the practices at times seem archaic and too formal and miss the how-to pieces which I try to fill in in different ways."
As for fees well????!!!!


I'd recommend anyone to check out how he teaches mahamudra practices.

But for sure, there is a business interest there. He charges 7700 USD per weekend, plus flights, hotels and meals. H e said it's perfectly fine with organisers in the US. He failed to understand that in remote European countries like the one where I live, he is practically unknown so taking a financial responsibility like that wasn't something I wanted to take. In regards to his fee, there was no mention of charity projects etc.


That is f$&king outrageous.

He also mentioned his teacher, Mingyur, charges more than him. I don't know what to make of that.


I highly doubt that this is the case.
Last edited by Malcolm on Wed Aug 10, 2016 6:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


There is neither sharp nor dull in the capacity of sentient beings. If it is asked why this is so, it is because an introduction is sufficient.


— Self-Liberated Vidyā Tantra

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Malcolm
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Re: Loch Kelly

Postby Malcolm » Wed Aug 10, 2016 6:00 pm

philji wrote:I have now discovered that his authorisation to teach by Mingyur Rinpoche is going to be removed from his website...a misunderstanding he says!!!!



Jax II
Atikosha
Tibetan Medicine Blog
Sudarsana Mandala, Tibetan Medicine and Herbs
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


There is neither sharp nor dull in the capacity of sentient beings. If it is asked why this is so, it is because an introduction is sufficient.


— Self-Liberated Vidyā Tantra

philji
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Re: Loch Kelly

Postby philji » Wed Aug 10, 2016 6:20 pm

I have heard enough to make up my mind, thanks guys.

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Re: Loch Kelly

Postby Kim » Wed Aug 10, 2016 7:03 pm

What the *hell* is going on here... Someone shouts from the bushes a oneliner saying about a "misunderstanding" that Loch Kelly isn't an authorised mahamudra teacher and doesn't proof this claim in any way. And already Loch Kelly is thought of as big of a hoax as Jackson Peterson. Hello..?

Philji. Provide evidence of your claims of Kelly not being authorised by Mingyur. Otherwise you are committing a serious action of spreading misinformation that will have effect on both yourself, Loch Kelly and many others. I hope you can see that.
”I don't think we need even a scrap of Tibetan culture, including vajrayana buddhism, in order to recognise the nature of mind. If somebody walks in of the street here who never heard of Tibet or Tibetan buddhism and has a natural antipathy to anything other than American culture, is given the essence of dzogchen, there's no reason why that person should not attain immediately the same state that we have reached, having gone through that whole circuit of oriental culture and Tibetan buddhism.” - Keith Dowman

philji
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Re: Loch Kelly

Postby philji » Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:42 am

Hi Kim
Please see pm.


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