Mahamudra and Theravada practices
-
- Posts: 153
- Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:12 pm
Mahamudra and Theravada practices
Hi,
I am just teading Drikung Kyabgon Chetsang Rinpoches book 'The Practice Of Mahamudra'
On page 29 he suggests that the end result is the same whether we practice Tantric or Sutra Mahamudra. The latter being Samatha and Vipassana.
Does this mean that Theravadins acheive Mahamudra too by practicing Vipassana and Samatha?
_/|\_
I am just teading Drikung Kyabgon Chetsang Rinpoches book 'The Practice Of Mahamudra'
On page 29 he suggests that the end result is the same whether we practice Tantric or Sutra Mahamudra. The latter being Samatha and Vipassana.
Does this mean that Theravadins acheive Mahamudra too by practicing Vipassana and Samatha?
_/|\_
Re: Mahamudra and Theravada practices
Justmeagain wrote:Hi,
I am just teading Drikung Kyabgon Chetsang Rinpoches book 'The Practice Of Mahamudra'
On page 29 he suggests that the end result is the same whether we practice Tantric or Sutra Mahamudra. The latter being Samatha and Vipassana.
Does this mean that Theravadins acheive Mahamudra too by practicing Vipassana and Samatha?
_/|\_
No, there is the small matter of the view and motivation.
Also it is not certain that the result of sūtra and tantra are the same. There are many assertions in the tantra that the result of practicing Vajrayāna is higher.
-
- Posts: 153
- Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:12 pm
Re: Mahamudra and Theravada practices
Higher in what respect?
Isn't a realisation of the nature of the mind the same in both respects?
Isn't a realisation of the nature of the mind the same in both respects?
Re: Mahamudra and Theravada practices
Higher in terms of omniscience and realization.Justmeagain wrote:Higher in what respect?
Isn't a realisation of the nature of the mind the same in both respects?
-
- Posts: 153
- Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:12 pm
Re: Mahamudra and Theravada practices
But thats an assertion from Tantric practitioners yes?Malcolm wrote:Higher in terms of omniscience and realization.Justmeagain wrote:Higher in what respect?
Isn't a realisation of the nature of the mind the same in both respects?
Re: Mahamudra and Theravada practices
Justmeagain wrote:But thats an assertion from Tantric practitioners yes?Malcolm wrote:Higher in terms of omniscience and realization.Justmeagain wrote:Higher in what respect?
Isn't a realisation of the nature of the mind the same in both respects?
Well you are asking in the Mahamudra section so...
- PadmaVonSamba
- Posts: 9454
- Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 1:41 am
Re: Mahamudra and Theravada practices
There are different paths, and relative stages of realization on the path of each, and in comparing one path to another.
However, once perfect realization (Buddhahood) is attained, there is no difference in the result.
However, once perfect realization (Buddhahood) is attained, there is no difference in the result.
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
Re: Mahamudra and Theravada practices
First you might want to specify what calming and insight stand for in Theravada and in Mahamudra.Justmeagain wrote:Does this mean that Theravadins acheive Mahamudra too by practicing Vipassana and Samatha?
Also, if you want to study a structural interpretation of doctrines, Ringu Tulku's Daring Steps is a fine work for that.
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?
2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.
3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.
4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.
1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?
2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.
3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.
4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.
1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
Re: Mahamudra and Theravada practices
The Vipassana practice practiced by Theravadins is usually quite different from that is commonly called Vipashyana in Vajrayana - despite having the same name. This is obvious to everyone who has experience with both Therevada-meditation and Vajrayana. For any reason however Vajrayana practitioners without experience of Therevada practice seem to think it's the same.
The best comparison I know between Therevada-Vipassana and Sutra-Mahamudra is in the book of Daniel Brown, Engler and Wilber "Transformations of Consciousness". Whereas there seems to be a common depth structure the experience on both paths are actually quite different. This is also my personal experience having practiced both systems.
I cannot talk about tantric Mahamudra as I have no experience with this practice and only a vague understanding.
Just one short comment:
The best comparison I know between Therevada-Vipassana and Sutra-Mahamudra is in the book of Daniel Brown, Engler and Wilber "Transformations of Consciousness". Whereas there seems to be a common depth structure the experience on both paths are actually quite different. This is also my personal experience having practiced both systems.
I cannot talk about tantric Mahamudra as I have no experience with this practice and only a vague understanding.
Just one short comment:
Of course all of these assertions come from Vajrayana practitioners, not from Theravadins. Chinese would certainly claim that chinese noodles are superior to Italian pasta. (In my eyes there is a certain truth to this statement, though. But you have to have deeper experience with both systems to understand this on a more than superficial level.)There are many assertions in the tantra that the result of practicing Vajrayāna is higher.
Re: Mahamudra and Theravada practices
There are several different approaches to it, actually.fckw wrote:The Vipassana practice practiced by Theravadins is usually quite different...
Re: Mahamudra and Theravada practices
Same for Therevada-Vipassana. Goenka meditation style is actually quite different to Mahasi Sayadaw meditation style.Malcolm wrote:There are several different approaches to it, actually.fckw wrote:The Vipassana practice practiced by Theravadins is usually quite different...
(For any reason beyond my understanding the whole reasearch community on "mindfulness meditation" skips this essential point.)
Re: Mahamudra and Theravada practices
fckw wrote:Same for Therevada-Vipassana. Goenka meditation style is actually quite different to Mahasi Sayadaw meditation style.Malcolm wrote:There are several different approaches to it, actually.fckw wrote:The Vipassana practice practiced by Theravadins is usually quite different...
(For any reason beyond my understanding the whole reasearch community on "mindfulness meditation" skips this essential point.)
I was referring to Theravada in fact.
Re: Mahamudra and Theravada practices
It's because the mindfulness scene reduces EVERYTHING to an a priori universal spirituality, of which different practices are manifestations. Which is to say that the scholarship on mindfulness generally assumes what it sets out to prove.fckw wrote:Same for Therevada-Vipassana. Goenka meditation style is actually quite different to Mahasi Sayadaw meditation style.Malcolm wrote:There are several different approaches to it, actually.fckw wrote:The Vipassana practice practiced by Theravadins is usually quite different...
(For any reason beyond my understanding the whole reasearch community on "mindfulness meditation" skips this essential point.)