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Me too! Me too!

Posted: Wed May 17, 2017 6:23 pm
by smcj
From "Moonbeams of Mahamudra" by Treleg R. introduction:
(The erratic capitalization is from the book.)
It is important to understand that this Mahamudra system goes beyond Tantra. The text contains a discussion on the relationship between Tantra and Mahamudra but Mahamudra is not confined to conventional tantra practices. The goal of all higher tantric practices is to realize mahamudra, but Mahamudra meditation is a distinct meditative system. Conventional tantra practices include visualizations of deitites, mantra recitation, ritual practices, chanting, and so on. Not so in Mahamudra meditation. Mahamudra does not rely on any of these things or even regard them as important. We can practice Mahamudra without practicing Tantra or we can practice it in conjunctions with Tantra, but the Mahamudra system as presented in this manual is a complete and distinct practice in its own right.
I just wanted to make the point that Dzogchen does not monopolize this kind of approach.

(Me too! Me too!)

Re: Me too! Me too!

Posted: Wed May 17, 2017 7:05 pm
by Malcolm
smcj wrote:From "Moonbeams of Mahamudra" by Treleg R. introduction:
(The erratic capitalization is from the book.)
It is important to understand that this Mahamudra system goes beyond Tantra. The text contains a discussion on the relationship between Tantra and Mahamudra but Mahamudra is not confined to conventional tantra practices. The goal of all higher tantric practices is to realize mahamudra, but Mahamudra meditation is a distinct meditative system. Conventional tantra practices include visualizations of deitites, mantra recitation, ritual practices, chanting, and so on. Not so in Mahamudra meditation. Mahamudra does not rely on any of these things or even regard them as important. We can practice Mahamudra without practicing Tantra or we can practice it in conjunctions with Tantra, but the Mahamudra system as presented in this manual is a complete and distinct practice in its own right.
I just wanted to make the point that Dzogchen does not monopolize this kind of approach.

(Me too! Me too!)
Correct, but indeed, as Machig Labdron says of the dharmadhātu after going through all the yānas, including Dzogchen and Mahāmudra:
  • The ignorant and confused are deluded
    because they know and apprehend the dharmadhātu as an object [...]
    All of these knowledges (rig pa)
    are knowledges that know objects.
    Those [knowledges that] possess objects are not true.
    There is nothing to know in the mind without objects.
    Whoever knows is bound by knowledge.

Re: Me too! Me too!

Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 3:05 am
by smcj
Upon re-reading the quote I see that when "Tantra" is used as a proper noun it is capitalized, and when used as an adjective it is spelled in lower case. So I guess that's correct.

Oops. Maybe I shoulda' finished college.
Machig Labdron wrote:The ignorant and confused are deluded..
Ya got that right.

Re: Me too! Me too!

Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 10:14 am
by Astus
Malcolm wrote:Correct, but indeed, as Machig Labdron says of the dharmadhātu after going through all the yānas, including Dzogchen and Mahāmudra:
  • The ignorant and confused are deluded
    because they know and apprehend the dharmadhātu as an object [...]
    All of these knowledges (rig pa)
    are knowledges that know objects.
    Those [knowledges that] possess objects are not true.
    There is nothing to know in the mind without objects.
    Whoever knows is bound by knowledge.
Something similar from the Platform Sutra (ch 7, BDK ed, p 62-63):

The master said, “That teacher’s explanation still allows perceptual understanding to exist, which is why you were unable to comprehend. I will now reveal a verse for you:

Not seeing a single dharma but maintaining the view of nonbeing
Is much like floating clouds blocking the face of the sun.
Not knowing a single dharma but maintaining one’s knowledge of emptiness
Is just like the great void generating lightning and thunder.

When such perceptual understanding arises for the slightest instant,
How can mistaken recognition ever understand expedient means?
You should understand the error of this yourself, in a single moment of thought,
And the numinous brilliance of the self will be constantly manifest.

When Zhichang heard this verse, his mind became suddenly expansive [in enlightenment], and he related a verse:

There is no reason to activate perceptual understanding,
To be attached to characteristics and seek for bodhi.
When one’s intelligence harbors a single thought of enlightenment,
How can one transcend the delusions of the past?

The self-nature, enlightened to the essential source,
Illuminates the crazed currents [of awareness].
Without entering the room of the patriarch,
In a daze, going about with two heads.