keep up (meditative) awareness in anethaesia

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Dolma
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keep up (meditative) awareness in anethaesia

Post by Dolma » Wed Nov 29, 2017 4:40 pm

Hi,

I'd appreciate your opnion about the following question

Do you think it's possible for someone practising meditation for some time and having got the necessary instructions from the teacher to keep up (stay in) (meditative) awareness when getting an anethaesia (narcosis) during an operation.

Thanks

Simon E.
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Re: keep up (meditative) awareness in anethaesia

Post by Simon E. » Wed Nov 29, 2017 4:54 pm

I'll be frank. I think that kind of attainment is beyond most of us currently.
I tried. Couldn't.
If you use the word 'mind' without defining your terms I will ask you politely for a definition. :smile:
This is not to be awkward. But it's really not self-explanatory.

Dolma
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Re: keep up (meditative) awareness in anethaesia

Post by Dolma » Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:19 pm

thank you Simon for your very honest answer - obviously we are in the same boat.

I'd like to add a question: wouln't that be (failure of keeping up awareness) a sort of test for the death situation and therefore mean - no way

Simon E.
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Re: keep up (meditative) awareness in anethaesia

Post by Simon E. » Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:07 pm

Dream yoga might be a useful topic to explore...we are all works in progress..
If you use the word 'mind' without defining your terms I will ask you politely for a definition. :smile:
This is not to be awkward. But it's really not self-explanatory.

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Astus
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Re: keep up (meditative) awareness in anethaesia

Post by Astus » Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:20 pm

Dolma wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 4:40 pm
keep up (stay in) (meditative) awareness when getting an anethaesia (narcosis) during an operation.
If it is something to be maintained, it is conditioned. If it is conditioned, it is impermanent and empty. One might maintain whatever state of mind one imagines, but the next moment it is gone anyway, and then who can say whether it was real at all?
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"

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PuerAzaelis
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Re: keep up (meditative) awareness in anethaesia

Post by PuerAzaelis » Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:39 am

Theoretically I impute the self even when in deep dreamless sleep.

So, possible for me? No, not this lifetime.

At the moment I can’t imagine the profundity of that completion.

But possible eventually? Yes, even necessary.
Last edited by PuerAzaelis on Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
Generally, enjoyment of speech is the gateway to poor [results]. So it becomes the foundation for generating all negative emotional states. Jampel Pawo, The Certainty of the Diamond Mind

For posts from this user, see Karma Dondrup Tashi account.

PeterC
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Re: keep up (meditative) awareness in anethaesia

Post by PeterC » Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:45 am

Dolma wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 4:40 pm
Hi,

I'd appreciate your opnion about the following question

Do you think it's possible for someone practising meditation for some time and having got the necessary instructions from the teacher to keep up (stay in) (meditative) awareness when getting an anethaesia (narcosis) during an operation.

Thanks
I've had four ops with full anaesthetic and tried, for fun, to remain conscious as they administered the anaesthetic. Not only did I completely fail each time, the curious thing was that there was no sense of falling asleep or waking up. There was simply a direct transition from being awake pre-surgery to being awake after receiving the injection to wake me up. I suspect it's simply not comparable to sleep or death - more like being hit over the head and knocked out.

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Lingpupa
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Re: keep up (meditative) awareness in anethaesia

Post by Lingpupa » Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:59 am

Similar here to PeterC. I did have a momentary sensation of "whoosh-bam-blackness" (if you see what I mean), then seemed to start immediately piecing my post-op consciousness together.
All the best
Alex Wilding
Stupa in the Snow blog at http://chagchen.org/

Dolma
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Re: keep up (meditative) awareness in anethaesia

Post by Dolma » Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:12 am

Thanks for the replies. :smile:

I don't know how it feels like getting knocked out but the moment I got the anaestehetic it was more like a black wall was falling down. No "light" at all. The waking up process was worse not at all as waking up from sleep. My mind went completely havoc. If I had a thought I couldn't remember it the moment it was gone. I couldn't "grasp" it. It was like my mind was completely off any control more like vast air "running" around like sort of a vast cloud.

I had three consecutive operations over a couple of months. And it was the same all three times. For me these experiences were awful.

The question I am thinking about is whether the process in the moment of dying might be the same or if it is different.

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kirtu
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Re: keep up (meditative) awareness in anethaesia

Post by kirtu » Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:19 am

Dolma wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 4:40 pm
Hi,

I'd appreciate your opnion about the following question

Do you think it's possible for someone practising meditation for some time and having got the necessary instructions from the teacher to keep up (stay in) (meditative) awareness when getting an anethaesia (narcosis) during an operation.

Thanks
No. Actually this is addressed in the biography of Dezhung Rinpoche. He may have retained consciousness during surgery but the real thing is that he practiced every day while seemingly unconscious after a stroke.

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

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PuerAzaelis
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Re: keep up (meditative) awareness in anethaesia

Post by PuerAzaelis » Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:45 am

Not directly related to the anesthesia question, but interesting nonetheless. The first 15 minutes of this is from a question from Dr. Wallace’s retreat last year and is related to an instruction he gave in an earlier session, where he said something to the effect that after you achieve shamatha, the focus is no longer really on the breath but merely on the rhythm of respiration.

Generally, enjoyment of speech is the gateway to poor [results]. So it becomes the foundation for generating all negative emotional states. Jampel Pawo, The Certainty of the Diamond Mind

For posts from this user, see Karma Dondrup Tashi account.

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