Gaden Mahamudra

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Lobsang Chojor
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Gaden Mahamudra

Post by Lobsang Chojor » Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:49 am

Hi all,

I've received received a HYT empowerment and the lama indicated the importance of practicing mahamudra and said we had permission to practice it. My question is, is the lung of the 1st Panchen Lama's mahamudra root text vital before you start the practice of mahamudra in the gelug tradition?

Unfortunately I can't ask the lama as he was only here for a few weeks and my teacher is no longer in the UK (as HHDL asked him to become the abbot of Sera Mey) and I don't want to waste his time with my questions.
"Morality does not become pure unless darkness is dispelled by the light of wisdom"
  • Aryasura, Paramitasamasa 6.5
ༀ་ཨ་ར་པ་ཙ་ན་དྷཱི༔ Oṃ A Ra Pa Ca Na Dhīḥ

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Astus
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Re: Gaden Mahamudra

Post by Astus » Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:27 am

Lobsang Chojor wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:49 am
I've received received a HYT empowerment and the lama indicated the importance of practicing mahamudra and said we had permission to practice it. My question is, is the lung of the 1st Panchen Lama's mahamudra root text vital before you start the practice of mahamudra in the gelug tradition?
Can't say anything about the Gelug setup, but in HYT the fourth empowerment is mahamudra, so technically you already know what to practice. The specific teachings focusing on mahamudra itself might be used as theoretical support.
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"

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Lobsang Chojor
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Re: Gaden Mahamudra

Post by Lobsang Chojor » Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:31 pm

Astus wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:27 am
Can't say anything about the Gelug setup, but in HYT the fourth empowerment is mahamudra, so technically you already know what to practice. The specific teachings focusing on mahamudra itself might be used as theoretical support.
Thank you Astus, I thought as much but I didn't make notes during the empowerment so couldn't remember perfectly.
"Morality does not become pure unless darkness is dispelled by the light of wisdom"
  • Aryasura, Paramitasamasa 6.5
ༀ་ཨ་ར་པ་ཙ་ན་དྷཱི༔ Oṃ A Ra Pa Ca Na Dhīḥ

zerwe
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Re: Gaden Mahamudra

Post by zerwe » Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:03 pm

Wisdom Publications has just released a book of Lama Yeshe's teachings on Mahamudra.
Maybe that would prove useful.

Shaun

Malcolm
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Re: Gaden Mahamudra

Post by Malcolm » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:38 pm

Lobsang Chojor wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:49 am
Hi all,

I've received received a HYT empowerment and the lama indicated the importance of practicing mahamudra and said we had permission to practice it. My question is, is the lung of the 1st Panchen Lama's mahamudra root text vital before you start the practice of mahamudra in the gelug tradition?
A qualified guru is vital.
Astus wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:27 am
Can't say anything about the Gelug setup, but in HYT the fourth empowerment is mahamudra
No.

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Lobsang Chojor
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Re: Gaden Mahamudra

Post by Lobsang Chojor » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:45 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:38 pm
Lobsang Chojor wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:49 am
Hi all,

I've received received a HYT empowerment and the lama indicated the importance of practicing mahamudra and said we had permission to practice it. My question is, is the lung of the 1st Panchen Lama's mahamudra root text vital before you start the practice of mahamudra in the gelug tradition?
A qualified guru is vital.
Astus wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:27 am
Can't say anything about the Gelug setup, but in HYT the fourth empowerment is mahamudra
No.
Thank you Malcolm! I'll wait for my guru to return before starting practicing.
"Morality does not become pure unless darkness is dispelled by the light of wisdom"
  • Aryasura, Paramitasamasa 6.5
ༀ་ཨ་ར་པ་ཙ་ན་དྷཱི༔ Oṃ A Ra Pa Ca Na Dhīḥ

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Astus
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Re: Gaden Mahamudra

Post by Astus » Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:55 am

Malcolm wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:38 pm
Astus wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:27 am
in HYT the fourth empowerment is mahamudra
No.
Why?

"The "word empowerment" is given in order to introduce you to the actual innate wisdom, which is the seven aspects of mahamudra"
(Dakpo Tashi Namgyal: Light Rays from the Jewel of the Excellent Teaching, in Mahamudra and Related Instructions, p 487)

"The fourth empowerment is that of the word or mahamudra. It's like talking or pointing out instructions with the words. But the meaning is mahamudra. So then one practises with the essence of one's mind."
(Mingyur Dorje Rinpoche: Vajrayana and Empowerment)
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"

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Re: Gaden Mahamudra

Post by Crazywisdom » Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:26 pm

To introduce you. There’s still the path. In Dakpo... one has to be in no meditation 24/7 no breaks, even for dreams. Father tantras and “nondual” make things a bit more clear about the result. The Mirror divination analogy.
Vajra fangs deliver vajra venom to your Mara body.

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Eusebius
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Re: Gaden Mahamudra

Post by Eusebius » Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:08 pm

Dear Lobsang Chojor
I read your original post on this. My 1st questions: was the lama using a translator? Was he giving the directive about Mahamudra in English or another language?
Next point: Gelug Vajrayana is different from the other 3 major Tibetan lineages in approach. Frequently, in forums like this, folks from other lineages chime in with their perspective. Please dont get me wrong--they are doing it according to their best lights and w/ the best intentions...(however they may not realize all the differences).
You said you had a HYT initiation. Might help to know which one. Feel free to send me a priv. message if youre more comfortable with that.
I could hazard guess on what your lama meant, based on the HYT empowerments Ive had from older Gelug lamas, but would prefer to have a bit more context.
Other ideas: find someone who took the same empowerment. See if they took notes or have a clear recollection of what was said. Talk to senior students. Get a commentary (pref. digital format)on the practice of the initiation you took. Then do a keyword search on "Mahamudra" in the commentary.
Love & best wishes for your practice!

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Lobsang Chojor
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Re: Gaden Mahamudra

Post by Lobsang Chojor » Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:59 pm

Dear Eusebius,

There was a translator who was very clear the fault was with me. I've since received clarification from other people there as well as some teachers.
"Morality does not become pure unless darkness is dispelled by the light of wisdom"
  • Aryasura, Paramitasamasa 6.5
ༀ་ཨ་ར་པ་ཙ་ན་དྷཱི༔ Oṃ A Ra Pa Ca Na Dhīḥ

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Miroku
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Re: Gaden Mahamudra

Post by Miroku » Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:36 pm

And since Lobsang's question has been answered and he has given me his blessing I am therefore closing this thread. As always if anybody feels like they have some important addition feel free to pm mods.
A boat delivers you to the other riverbank.
A needle stitches up your clothes.
A horse takes you where you want to go.
Bodhicitta will bring you to Buddhahood.
~ Khunu Lama Rinpoche

Even non-buddhists have many virtuous accomplishments
~ Jigten Sumgon

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