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Re: Signs from the Dakinis?

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:39 pm
by Void
Norwegian wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:17 pm
If you don't have samaya, in other words, if you haven't received empowerment from a qualified teacher, and if you haven't received Mahamudra from a qualified teacher, then none of this is your business, actually.
What qualified teacher exactly allowed and empowered Buddha to practice and to become enlightened?

Re: Signs from the Dakinis?

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:45 pm
by Void
Also, a qualified teacher instructing a student doesn't automatically make the student worthy.
According to Longchen Rabjam:
If this discipline regarding the heart-essence is abused certain obstacle-creating demons and spirits
and skilled dakinis can bring teacher and student under a cloud of fear and to untimely death,
and through adverse criticism the way of the heart will decline; for this reason abandon unresponsive people.
Keith Dowman, Old Man Basking in the Sun, pg. 238
So obviously a student is either worthy or not, completely independant of the allowance, empowernment of acceptance of a teacher.
Otherwise dakinis wouldn't kill off certain sorts of students plus their teachers who obviously officially taught and accepted them as their students!

Re: Signs from the Dakinis?

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:52 pm
by PSM
Void wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:39 pm
Norwegian wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:17 pm
If you don't have samaya, in other words, if you haven't received empowerment from a qualified teacher, and if you haven't received Mahamudra from a qualified teacher, then none of this is your business, actually.
What qualified teacher exactly allowed and empowered Buddha to practice and to become enlightened?
The final step before attaining total buddhahood is to receive empowerment from buddhas in the akanistha realm.

Re: Signs from the Dakinis?

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:58 pm
by Aryjna
Void wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:39 pm
Norwegian wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:17 pm
If you don't have samaya, in other words, if you haven't received empowerment from a qualified teacher, and if you haven't received Mahamudra from a qualified teacher, then none of this is your business, actually.
What qualified teacher exactly allowed and empowered Buddha to practice and to become enlightened?
Shakyamuni was already a buddha long before he manifested on earth.
Void wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:45 pm
Also, a qualified teacher instructing a student doesn't automatically make the student worthy.
According to Longchen Rabjam:
If this discipline regarding the heart-essence is abused certain obstacle-creating demons and spirits
and skilled dakinis can bring teacher and student under a cloud of fear and to untimely death,
and through adverse criticism the way of the heart will decline; for this reason abandon unresponsive people.
Keith Dowman, Old Man Basking in the Sun, pg. 238
So obviously a student is either worthy or not, completely independant of the allowance, empowernment of acceptance of a teacher.
Otherwise dakinis wouldn't kill off certain sorts of students plus their teachers who obviously officially taught and accepted them as their students!
Don't be unresponsive then, problem solved.

Re: Signs from the Dakinis?

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:08 pm
by Void
Aryjna wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:58 pm
Shakyamuni was already a buddha long before he manifested on earth.
So all his life's journey to become enlightened was just a farce then?
Aryjna wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:58 pm
Don't be unresponsive then, problem solved.
Not being able to read and to understand quotes correctly
seems pretty unresponsive to me.
Your luck that this isn't the reason why dakinis get into action (see quote!).

Re: Signs from the Dakinis?

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:10 pm
by Aryjna
Void wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:08 pm
So all his life's journey to figure out the dharma and to become enlightened was just a farce then?
If you think that spreading the dharma in this realm is a farce, then yes.
Void wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:08 pm
Not being able to read and to understand quotes correctly
seems pretty unresponsive to me.
Your luck that this isn't the reason why dakinis get into action (see quote!).
I'm not sure what you're talking about.

Re: Signs from the Dakinis?

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:12 pm
by Void
PSM wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:52 pm
The final step before attaining total buddhahood is to receive empowerment from buddhas in the akanistha realm.
"Total buddhahood" is achieved while being alive through "the great transfer". So you achieve it right here and don't need to go to any other realm to get it.

Re: Signs from the Dakinis?

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:16 pm
by Void
Aryjna wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:10 pm
If you think that spreading the dharma in this realm is a farce, then yes.
First and foremost his life's jouney was to figure out a way to get enlightened himself,
then he instructed students.
So why did he need to get enlightened if he already was enlightened before he even started his journey?
Aryjna wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:10 pm
I'm not sure what you're talking about.
The reason is "abuse of the heart-essence" (which is not more precisely defined in the text), not being "unresponsive".

Re: Signs from the Dakinis?

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:17 pm
by Aryjna
Void wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:16 pm
Aryjna wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:10 pm
If you think that spreading the dharma in this realm is a farce, then yes.
First and foremost his life's jouney was to figure out a way to get enlightened himself,
then he instructed students.
So why did he need to get enlightened if he already was enlightened before he even started his journey?
You can read about that in Mahayana sutras and their commentaries.

Re: Signs from the Dakinis?

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:22 pm
by Void
Aryjna wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:17 pm
You can read about that in Mahayana sutras and their commentaries.
Why don't you think for yourself and explain to me how this is supposed to make sense.

Re: Signs from the Dakinis?

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:25 pm
by Aryjna
Void wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:22 pm
Aryjna wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:17 pm
You can read about that in Mahayana sutras and their commentaries.
Why don't you think for yourself and explain to me how this is supposed to make sense.
Because I am not interested in convincing you, and because arguments almost never lead anywhere.

Re: Signs from the Dakinis?

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:27 pm
by Norwegian
I remember now who this user is. Previous nickname was ZOOM, and claimed to know more about Dzogchen than anybody on this planet. Of course, never having received any kind of empowerment or direct introduction...

Re: Signs from the Dakinis?

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:28 pm
by Josef
Norwegian wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:27 pm
I remember now who this user is. Previous nickname was ZOOM, and claimed to know more about Dzogchen than anybody on this planet. Of course, never having received any kind of empowerment or direct introduction...
one and the same.

Re: Signs from the Dakinis?

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:34 pm
by PSM
Void wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:12 pm
PSM wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:52 pm
The final step before attaining total buddhahood is to receive empowerment from buddhas in the akanistha realm.
"Total buddhahood" is achieved while being alive through "the great transfer". So you achieve it right here and don't need to go to any other realm to get it.
These are not contradictory. Ask a Dzogchen master about why.

Re: Signs from the Dakinis?

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:36 pm
by amanitamusc
Void wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:39 pm
Norwegian wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:17 pm
If you don't have samaya, in other words, if you haven't received empowerment from a qualified teacher, and if you haven't received Mahamudra from a qualified teacher, then none of this is your business, actually.
What qualified teacher exactly allowed and empowered Buddha to practice and to become enlightened?
Have found a teacher since your Zoom days?You do show interest.

Re: Signs from the Dakinis?

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:48 pm
by Void
Norwegian wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:27 pm
I remember now who this user is. Previous nickname was ZOOM, and claimed to know more about Dzogchen than anybody on this planet. Of course, never having received any kind of empowerment or direct introduction...
So far, no one of the official dzogchen students of official and qualified dzogchen teachers in western countries achieved the end goal of dzogchen, namely rainbow body (not to mention the great transfer),
no matter how many empowernments and direct introductions they got.
Those are the facts.
If that situation changes, then I'll immedeately apply for official studentship of an official and qualified dzogchen teacher.
Until then, I prefer to rely on my superior intelligence and understanding (repeatedly scientifically proven IQ near 160) and on my extensive interdisciplinary studies (mostly dzogchen and mahamudra texts) and my personal practice efforts.
Dudjom Lingpa lead 13 of his students to rainbow body, what are the results of today's dzogchen teachers in the western countries?
Why is the situation as it is?
Are the western dzogchen students simply incapable or what are the reasons to explain the current non-existent western buddhas?
I honestly think that those questions need to be addressed.
And why is nobody besides me even asking them?

Re: Signs from the Dakinis?

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:51 pm
by Void
amanitamusc wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:36 pm
Have found a teacher since your Zoom days? You do show interest.
I would immedeately apply for studentship of any teacher who lead at least one of his western students to rainbow body.

Re: Signs from the Dakinis?

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:55 pm
by DGA
Void wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:44 pm
Even though you have attained the realization of greater One Taste, if you fail to have some degree of clairvoyance
and receive signs from the dakinis, you must be tainted by damaged samayas.
Clarifying the Natural State - Dakpo Tashi Namgyal

What are possible so-called "signs from the dakinis", which seem to indicate significant training progress in Mahamudra (and most likely also in Dzogchen)?
Are there quotes in Mahamudra or Dzogchen literature which describe those?

Thanks! :smile:
This is an ask-your-teacher kind of question.

Re: Signs from the Dakinis?

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:58 pm
by DGA
Void wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:48 pm
Norwegian wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:27 pm
I remember now who this user is. Previous nickname was ZOOM, and claimed to know more about Dzogchen than anybody on this planet. Of course, never having received any kind of empowerment or direct introduction...
So far, no one of the official dzogchen students of official and qualified dzogchen teachers in western countries achieved the end goal of dzogchen, namely rainbow body (not to mention the great transfer),
no matter how many empowernments and direct introductions they got.
Those are the facts.
If that situation changes, then I'll immedeately apply for official studentship of an official and qualified dzogchen teacher.
Until then, I prefer to rely on my superior intelligence and understanding (repeatedly scientifically proven IQ near 160) and on my extensive interdisciplinary studies (mostly dzogchen and mahamudra texts) and my personal practice efforts.
Dudjom Lingpa lead 13 of his students to rainbow body, what are the results of today's dzogchen teachers in the western countries?
Why is the situation as it is?
Are the western dzogchen students simply incapable or what are the reasons to explain the current non-existent western buddhas?
I honestly think that those questions need to be addressed.
And why is nobody besides me even asking them?
I need to get from New York to Los Angeles. I could take one of many commercial flights that is available to me, but instead I'll piss and moan until someone plops a fully-functional jetpack in my lap.

Re: Signs from the Dakinis?

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:00 pm
by Aryjna
Void wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:48 pm
Norwegian wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:27 pm
I remember now who this user is. Previous nickname was ZOOM, and claimed to know more about Dzogchen than anybody on this planet. Of course, never having received any kind of empowerment or direct introduction...
So far, no one of the official dzogchen students of official and qualified dzogchen teachers in western countries achieved the end goal of dzogchen, namely rainbow body (not to mention the great transfer),
no matter how many empowernments and direct introductions they got.
Those are the facts.
If that situation changes, then I'll immedeately apply for official studentship of an official and qualified dzogchen teacher.
Until then, I prefer to rely on my superior intelligence and understanding (repeatedly scientifically proven IQ near 160) and on my extensive interdisciplinary studies (mostly dzogchen and mahamudra texts) and my personal practice efforts.
Dudjom Lingpa lead 13 of his students to rainbow body, what are the results of today's dzogchen teachers in the western countries?
Why is the situation as it is?
Are the western dzogchen students simply incapable or what are the reasons to explain the current non-existent western buddhas?
I honestly think that those questions need to be addressed.
And why is nobody besides me even asking them?
Your superior intelligence should have told you that, even if a disciple is going to attain the rainbow body, this is in all likelihood going to happen after the teacher attains the rainbow body. So, by the time you have this kind of proof the teacher in question will be already gone. This is also probably not going to happen as long as there are no disciples currently spending decades of their life in retreat.

As for the rest, it is well known that practice without empowerment is useless, and possibly very harmful. But since you know that and ignore it, you may be beyond help.