Signs from the Dakinis?

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Astus
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Re: Signs from the Dakinis?

Post by Astus » Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:01 pm

Void wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:44 pm
What are possible so-called "signs from the dakinis", which seem to indicate significant training progress in Mahamudra (and most likely also in Dzogchen)?
Are there quotes in Mahamudra or Dzogchen literature which describe those?
'At this stage the meditator will acquire some power of supernormal cognition and will receive prophetic directions from his yidam and dakini. ... If the meditator has failed to acquire the spiritual power capable of producing both beneficial and harmful effects, has failed to gain supernormal cognition, and has also failed to receive any prophetic directions from the dakinis despite the fact that he has realized the great level of one flavor, then this condition might well be the consequence of his having violated the sacred bond or having been affected by a close associate who has abandoned his faith.'
(Mahamudra: the Moonlight, p 397-398)

'"Prophetic directions from the dakinis" refers to the protective role of the dakinis. Regarded as the custodians of the secret Supreme Yoga, the dakinis have been looked upon by Buddhist mystics as the protectors from forces of destruction and unscrupulous profaning.'
(n 208, p 465)
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"

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Void
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Re: Signs from the Dakinis?

Post by Void » Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:23 pm

Astus wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:01 pm
Void wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:44 pm
What are possible so-called "signs from the dakinis", which seem to indicate significant training progress in Mahamudra (and most likely also in Dzogchen)?
Are there quotes in Mahamudra or Dzogchen literature which describe those?
'At this stage the meditator will acquire some power of supernormal cognition and will receive prophetic directions from his yidam and dakini. ... If the meditator has failed to acquire the spiritual power capable of producing both beneficial and harmful effects, has failed to gain supernormal cognition, and has also failed to receive any prophetic directions from the dakinis despite the fact that he has realized the great level of one flavor, then this condition might well be the consequence of his having violated the sacred bond or having been affected by a close associate who has abandoned his faith.'
(Mahamudra: the Moonlight, p 397-398)

'"Prophetic directions from the dakinis" refers to the protective role of the dakinis. Regarded as the custodians of the secret Supreme Yoga, the dakinis have been looked upon by Buddhist mystics as the protectors from forces of destruction and unscrupulous profaning.'
(n 208, p 465)
Awesome, thank you very much for the great quotes!!! :twothumbsup:
Nobody needs to panic, the book is non-restricted. ;)
Last edited by Void on Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Josef
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Re: Signs from the Dakinis?

Post by Josef » Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:31 pm

Void wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:51 pm
amanitamusc wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:36 pm
Have found a teacher since your Zoom days? You do show interest.
I would immedeately apply for studentship of any teacher who lead at least one of his western students to rainbow body.
Ill be sure to send you a private message right before I attain jalu.
Unfortunately for you my masters will probably not be around anymore, at least not in their current form.
Kye ma!
The river of continuity is marked by impermanence.
Ceaseless flowing of appearance.
Beautiful and repulsive.
The dance of life and death is a display of the vast expanse.
With gratitude the watcher and the watched pass through the barrier of duality.

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Void
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Re: Signs from the Dakinis?

Post by Void » Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:36 pm

Aryjna wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:00 pm
you may be beyond help.
That almost sounds poetic...

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Void
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Re: Signs from the Dakinis?

Post by Void » Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:53 pm

Josef wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:31 pm
Ill be sure to send you a private message right before I attain jalu.
Unfortunately for you my masters will probably not be around anymore, at least not in their current form.
I think that you are deluding yourself.

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Josef
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Re: Signs from the Dakinis?

Post by Josef » Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:26 am

Void wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:53 pm
Josef wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:31 pm
Ill be sure to send you a private message right before I attain jalu.
Unfortunately for you my masters will probably not be around anymore, at least not in their current form.
I think that you are deluding yourself.
Nah, I’ll definitely remember to send you a message.
Kye ma!
The river of continuity is marked by impermanence.
Ceaseless flowing of appearance.
Beautiful and repulsive.
The dance of life and death is a display of the vast expanse.
With gratitude the watcher and the watched pass through the barrier of duality.

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lelopa
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Re: Signs from the Dakinis?

Post by lelopa » Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:16 am

Josef wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:04 pm
Pero wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:02 pm
Josef wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:45 pm


Oh, I understood the quote. It's not too difficult to follow.
Once you attain the realization of greater one taste and purify your tainted samaya, I suppose you will know.
Or end up like Virupa who thought he was getting nowhere because he didn't know the signs and throw your mala in the toilet and give up practice. :lol:
He figured it out :toilet:
And how did he figured it out?
With signs from Dakini!
;)
ཨོཾ་ཨཱཿཧཱུྃ་བོ་དྷི་ཙིཏྟ་མ་ཧཱ་སུ་ཁ་ཛྙཱ་ན་དྷཱརྟུ་ཨཱཿ

amanitamusc
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Re: Signs from the Dakinis?

Post by amanitamusc » Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:03 pm

Me thinks ZOOM Void prides himself on being a very bright rebel.
I felt like that when i was in my teens.

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Aryjna
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Re: Signs from the Dakinis?

Post by Aryjna » Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:50 pm

amanitamusc wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:03 pm
Me thinks ZOOM Void prides himself on being a very bright rebel.
I felt like that when i was in my teens.
It is not uncommon in highschool, there was a guy in my class who printed out iq tests and was trying to get people to take them, while advertising that his score was very high. His panties were usually bunched up in his quest to prove his perceived mathematical genius.

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Re: Signs from the Dakinis?

Post by Miroku » Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:53 pm

You guys are all zooming on void. Is there something to see?
A boat delivers you to the other riverbank.
A needle stitches up your clothes.
A horse takes you where you want to go.
Bodhicitta will bring you to Buddhahood.

~ Khunu Lama Rinpoche

amanitamusc
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Re: Signs from the Dakinis?

Post by amanitamusc » Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:00 pm

Miroku wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:53 pm
You guys are all zooming on void. Is there something to see?
He started it! I'm tellin.

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Josef
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Re: Signs from the Dakinis?

Post by Josef » Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:36 pm

amanitamusc wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:03 pm
Me thinks ZOOM Void prides himself on being a very bright rebel.
I felt like that when i was in my teens.
A “very stable genius”.
Kye ma!
The river of continuity is marked by impermanence.
Ceaseless flowing of appearance.
Beautiful and repulsive.
The dance of life and death is a display of the vast expanse.
With gratitude the watcher and the watched pass through the barrier of duality.

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Sonam Wangchug
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Re: Signs from the Dakinis?

Post by Sonam Wangchug » Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:11 pm

You would only need to practice Dzogchen from a living teacher if his student achieved Rainbow body?

That is some of the most deluded logic that I've ever heard.

As if you have complete control over your death and rebirth and have time to spare.. You better practice before it's too late, Precious human birth won't come again.

Any practice will only be good for you, don't worry about others and what they are or are not achieving, focus on yourself. It's the degenerate age, we can't expect much from others, but find a teacher who is free from hypocrisy and genuinely cares about students, who knows both the words and the meaning, who has received the lineage and kept the Samaya's.

There's an expression, whatever level we're at the practice comes down to our level, so if we're very limited and deluded we can practice even the highest of methods in an obscured way, and if we're advanced even the simplest "basic" methods are the most advanced. As long as you are receiving an unbroken lineage, you can achieve the result if you practice well.

Being advanced is having pure perception to ones teacher and vajra siblings, not endlessly evaluating if they are achieving the results or not. As Jamgon kongtrul lodro thaye says, though I have a mountain of flaws, I see the sesame seed of flaws in others. Just some words for myself, but maybe someone else can find them useful too. Lord knows I need it.

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PSM
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Re: Signs from the Dakinis?

Post by PSM » Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:54 pm

Sonam Wangchug wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:11 pm
There's an expression, whatever level we're at the practice comes down to our level, so if we're very limited and deluded we can practice even the highest of methods in an obscured way, and if we're advanced even the simplest "basic" methods are the most advanced. As long as you are receiving an unbroken lineage, you can achieve the result if you practice well.
I remember Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche explaining how dharmapalas protect Dzogchen teachings in particular, which ties to your statement. Rather than the person being harmed in some way, which might seem the obvious effect from the wrathful look of some deities, they channel people who are not suitable due to samaya issues or lack of proper transmission into a facsimile of the teachings. They are left in something of a bubble of their own ideas regarding practice and don't receive the benefits/results of the actual practice. Something like a meditational playpen. I think this is why avoiding the 'three faults of a pot' is so important, especially higher one gets in teachings. Maybe this is also one reason faith is so vitally important too. I know I have wasted (many) years due to unknowingly having the fault of a skull which is too thick. :emb:
"The only virtue which cannot be faked is courage" - Nassim Nicholas Taleb
"Not practicing dharma is painful" - Chokyi Nyima Rinpoche
"We don't want to feel the weirdness of life." - James Low

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Re: Signs from the Dakinis?

Post by Ignorant_Fool » Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:34 am

PSM wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:54 pm
I think this is why avoiding the 'three faults of a pot' is so important, especially higher one gets in teachings.
As someone with inferior intelligence and understanding, could I ask you to please elaborate on this, specifically on the 'three faults of a pot'?

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The Cicada
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Re: Signs from the Dakinis?

Post by The Cicada » Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:15 am

Ignorant_Fool wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:34 am
PSM wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:54 pm
I think this is why avoiding the 'three faults of a pot' is so important, especially higher one gets in teachings.
As someone with inferior intelligence and understanding, could I ask you to please elaborate on this, specifically on the 'three faults of a pot'?
"Behave or die, son." Term comes from the story where Lord Buddha explains the importance of good behavior to Rahula using a clay pot. A bad pot is destroyed. In the current age, however, it's all mostly pot, plunder, and power trips.

Fortunately, the technological singularity will save us all from ancient prophecies of doom... :smile: ....

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Re: Signs from the Dakinis?

Post by DGA » Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:50 am

Ignorant_Fool wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:34 am
PSM wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:54 pm
I think this is why avoiding the 'three faults of a pot' is so important, especially higher one gets in teachings.
As someone with inferior intelligence and understanding, could I ask you to please elaborate on this, specifically on the 'three faults of a pot'?
Some are upside-down. Can't be filled with the teachings for this reason.

Some are dirty. Teachings go in, but are corrupted and that's no good.

Some are leaky. Teachings go in one ear and... uh... what were we talking about?

This metaphor covers the same ground as the Zen imperative to "empty your cup." Open your mind and try to receive the teachings in good faith, that's the point.

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javier.espinoza.t
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Re: Signs from the Dakinis?

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:53 am

Void wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:48 pm
Norwegian wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:27 pm
I remember now who this user is. Previous nickname was ZOOM, and claimed to know more about Dzogchen than anybody on this planet. Of course, never having received any kind of empowerment or direct introduction...
So far, no one of the official dzogchen students of official and qualified dzogchen teachers in western countries achieved the end goal of dzogchen, namely rainbow body (not to mention the great transfer),
no matter how many empowernments and direct introductions they got.
Those are the facts.
If that situation changes, then I'll immedeately apply for official studentship of an official and qualified dzogchen teacher.
Until then, I prefer to rely on my superior intelligence and understanding (repeatedly scientifically proven IQ near 160) and on my extensive interdisciplinary studies (mostly dzogchen and mahamudra texts) and my personal practice efforts.
Dudjom Lingpa lead 13 of his students to rainbow body, what are the results of today's dzogchen teachers in the western countries?
Why is the situation as it is?
Are the western dzogchen students simply incapable or what are the reasons to explain the current non-existent western buddhas?
I honestly think that those questions need to be addressed.
And why is nobody besides me even asking them?
for western and eastern students the real deal is in dharmata, not in a book's rainbow pajama's stress.

measuring our IQ in this situation is the same as measuring our penis, it means nothing since the deal doesn't happen at a conceptual level.

can you go beyhond concepts? a teacher -someone who already walked the path- can show us how. don't underestimate what a teacher can give.
what are you doing

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Malcolm
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Re: Signs from the Dakinis?

Post by Malcolm » Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:39 pm

Void wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:48 pm
Until then, I prefer to rely on my superior intelligence and understanding (repeatedly scientifically proven IQ near 160) and on my extensive interdisciplinary studies (mostly dzogchen and mahamudra texts) and my personal practice efforts.
This is the reason no one takes you seriously. You do not have transmission. You do not have a guru. You have not made a relation with the dharmapālas. So no one is willing to talk to you about these recondite matters. In any case, forums like these are not very suitable for discussing such matters.

FYI, the body of light is an option, not a certainty, and as the Buddha pointed out in the Vajracchedika, and as Rongzom Pandita cites, if you think you can see a tathāgata by virtue of their signs, you are very mistaken.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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PSM
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Re: Signs from the Dakinis?

Post by PSM » Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:57 pm

DGA wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:50 am
Ignorant_Fool wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:34 am
PSM wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:54 pm
I think this is why avoiding the 'three faults of a pot' is so important, especially higher one gets in teachings.
As someone with inferior intelligence and understanding, could I ask you to please elaborate on this, specifically on the 'three faults of a pot'?
Some are upside-down. Can't be filled with the teachings for this reason.

Some are dirty. Teachings go in, but are corrupted and that's no good.

Some are leaky. Teachings go in one ear and... uh... what were we talking about?

This metaphor covers the same ground as the Zen imperative to "empty your cup." Open your mind and try to receive the teachings in good faith, that's the point.
What DGA said :good:
"The only virtue which cannot be faked is courage" - Nassim Nicholas Taleb
"Not practicing dharma is painful" - Chokyi Nyima Rinpoche
"We don't want to feel the weirdness of life." - James Low

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