Classic Kagyü Mahāmudrā Texts

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conebeckham
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Re: Classic Kagyü Mahāmudrā Texts

Post by conebeckham »

^agreed! :smile:
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
Jinzang
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Re: Classic Kagyü Mahāmudrā Texts

Post by Jinzang »

Nitartha isn't exactly pushing the book in the marketplace, considering the prerequisites that have to be met before you can buy it.
After Lama Phurbu Tashi looked at the restrictions he wondered if he could meet them. So I found the original Tibetan on the Dharma Downloads site, printed it out, and gave it to him. So the text is only restricted if you can't read Tibetan.
"It's as plain as the nose on your face!" Dottie Primrose
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conebeckham
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Re: Classic Kagyü Mahāmudrā Texts

Post by conebeckham »

True, dat.
It's easily found in the original Tibetan.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
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Sönam
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Re: Classic Kagyü Mahāmudrā Texts

Post by Sönam »

I would also recommand "Mahamudra and Related Instructions - Core Teachings of The Kagyu Schools" in the collection The Library of Tibetan Classicals (translation Peter Alan Roberts) which is a compilation of texts. It includes :

- A String of Pearls (Gampopa)
- The Unrivales Instructions of Shang Rinpoché (Shönu La)
- The Ultimate Supreme Path of the Mahamudra (Lama Shang)
- A Record of Mahamudra Instructions (Drukchen Pema Karpo)
- Instructions for The Mahamudra Innate Union (Karmapa Rangjung Dorjé)
- Prayer for The Definitive Meaning, the Mahamudra (Karmapa Rangjung Dorjé)
- Oral Transmission of the Supreme Siddhas - A Commentary on the Prayer for the Definitive Meaning (Situ Tenpai Nyinjé)
- The Bright Torch : The Perfect Illumination of the True Meaning of the Mahamudra, the Essence of All the Dharma (Tselé Natsok Rangdröl)
- The Quintessence of Nectar : Instructions for the Practice of the Six Dharmas of Naropa (Shamarpa Chökyi Wangchuk)
- The Single Viewpoint : A Root Text (Sherap Jungné) ... in four parts.
- Light Rays from the Jewel of the Excellent Teaching (Dakpo Tash Namgyal)

The whole collection is a must ...

Sönam
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
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Greg
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Re: Classic Kagyü Mahāmudrā Texts

Post by Greg »

I'd also like to put a plug in for Pointing Out the Great Way: The Stages of Meditation in Mahamudra by Daniel P. Brown (http://www.wisdompubs.org/Pages/display ... n=&image=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

It's academically rigorous yet oriented toward the practitioner, a survey of all of the important texts of the tradition. Really an impressive and very useful piece of work.
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Re: Classic Kagyü Mahāmudrā Texts

Post by Astus »

Greg wrote:I'd also like to put a plug in for Pointing Out the Great Way: The Stages of Meditation in Mahamudra by Daniel P. Brown (http://www.wisdompubs.org/Pages/display ... n=&image=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

It's academically rigorous yet oriented toward the practitioner, a survey of all of the important texts of the tradition. Really an impressive and very useful piece of work.
I've pondered on buying it but his relationship with Ken Wilber eventually deterred me.
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
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Re: Classic Kagyü Mahāmudrā Texts

Post by Greg »

I know he co-edited a book with Wilber (back in 1986), but I'm not sure how deep the relationship goes. In any case, he doesn't particularly bring any sort of syncretism into the book above, so I don't imagine you'll find it too much of an issue.
Jinzang
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Re: Classic Kagyü Mahāmudrā Texts

Post by Jinzang »

I just checked and Peter Alan Roberts' book is now available in epub format.
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Re: Classic Kagyü Mahāmudrā Texts

Post by mindyourmind »

Greg wrote:I'd also like to put a plug in for Pointing Out the Great Way: The Stages of Meditation in Mahamudra by Daniel P. Brown (http://www.wisdompubs.org/Pages/display ... n=&image=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

It's academically rigorous yet oriented toward the practitioner, a survey of all of the important texts of the tradition. Really an impressive and very useful piece of work.
I've got that lying there in the "to read" bundle, it looks like a good addition to the library.
Dualism is the real root of our suffering and all of our conflicts.

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Re: Classic Kagyü Mahāmudrā Texts

Post by Jnana »

mindyourmind wrote:
Greg wrote:I'd also like to put a plug in for Pointing Out the Great Way: The Stages of Meditation in Mahamudra by Daniel P. Brown (http://www.wisdompubs.org/Pages/display ... n=&image=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

It's academically rigorous yet oriented toward the practitioner, a survey of all of the important texts of the tradition. Really an impressive and very useful piece of work.
I've got that lying there in the "to read" bundle, it looks like a good addition to the library.
Some of the translated passages in Brown's book are not very precise. IMO it's better to rely on the classic texts, especially the new one: Mahāmudrā and Related Instructions: Core Teachings of the Kagyü Schools.
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Re: Classic Kagyü Mahāmudrā Texts

Post by mindyourmind »

Jnana wrote:
mindyourmind wrote:
Greg wrote:I'd also like to put a plug in for Pointing Out the Great Way: The Stages of Meditation in Mahamudra by Daniel P. Brown (http://www.wisdompubs.org/Pages/display ... n=&image=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

It's academically rigorous yet oriented toward the practitioner, a survey of all of the important texts of the tradition. Really an impressive and very useful piece of work.
I've got that lying there in the "to read" bundle, it looks like a good addition to the library.
Some of the translated passages in Brown's book are not very precise. IMO it's better to rely on the classic texts, especially the new one: Mahāmudrā and Related Instructions: Core Teachings of the Kagyü Schools.
Thanks, I have that also (I am reading it very slowly), and will compare the two. From skimming through a few of Brown's pages he seems to want to modernize his approach, to somehow make things easier to understand - nearly a condescending type of translation. But maybe I am being unfair, I should read the book first.

The "Core Teachings" is just a monster of a book, absolutely brilliant.
Dualism is the real root of our suffering and all of our conflicts.

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Re: Classic Kagyü Mahāmudrā Texts

Post by Jnana »

mindyourmind wrote:From skimming through a few of Brown's pages he seems to want to modernize his approach, to somehow make things easier to understand - nearly a condescending type of translation. But maybe I am being unfair, I should read the book first.
Brown's book is worth reading, but the source texts are translated better by Roberts.
mindyourmind wrote:The "Core Teachings" is just a monster of a book, absolutely brilliant.
Yes, brilliant.
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Re: Classic Kagyü Mahāmudrā Texts

Post by username »

numerous openly hidden mahamudra pointing outs in simple language in each of these books:
http://www.amazon.com/Chogyam-Trungpa/e ... 425&sr=1-1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Dzogchen masters I know say: 1)Buddhist religion essence is Dzogchen 2)Religions are positive by intent/fruit 3)Any method's OK unless: breaking Dzogchen vows, mixed as syncretic (Milanese Soup) 4)Don't join mandalas of opponents of Dalai Lama/Padmasambhava: False Deity inventors by encouraging victims 5)Don't debate Ati with others 6)Don't discuss Ati practices online 7) A master told his old disciple: no one's to discuss his teaching with some others on a former forum nor mention him. Publicity's OK, questions are asked from masters/set teachers in person/email/non-public forums~Best wishes
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Re: Classic Kagyü Mahāmudrā Texts

Post by Jinzang »

What Bardor Tulku said is certainly true: teachers are giving pointing out instructions all the time. For example, I took notes at Nubpa Rinpoche's teaching on the Uttaratantra Shastra, and there are pointing out instructions in it, if you read it closely.
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Re: Classic Kagyü Mahāmudrā Texts

Post by Karma Tashi G. »

conebeckham wrote:Both Ngedon Gyamtso and Chakchen Dawai Ozer are "manuals," and both do present the sort of "question and answer" method. Ngedon Gyamtso, however, is the more complete of the two in this regard. The aim is to help the teacher facilitate the student's exploration. And, as someone said, "Dakpo Tashi Namgyal's "Clarifying" is more explicit, and "contains the correct answers," so to speak.

The reason some of these texts are restricted is because certain "catch-phrases" or "answers" can be learned, and there is the potential pitfall of a student answering questions by rote, or from a position of "intellect only," and not from experience. Knowing the answers can actually get in the way of finding them out for oneself. Though sometimes not.
There is that problem but there is another very serious problem. Learning of a mental state acts as a wall to mind/bodily experiencing it. Also some actual experiences are very very very powerful and can be frightening if one does not have a teacher to resort to! Learning by book is better done after serious teacher-guided study I think! I have lots and lots of books and use them like whisky bottles to avoid practice-that is another danger of books!

KTG
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conebeckham
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Re: Classic Kagyü Mahāmudrā Texts

Post by conebeckham »

As a fan of books, (and of whisky), I appreciate all your sentiments. :twothumbsup:

Frankly, I like Bokar Rinpoche's little condensation of Ngedon Gyamtso the best, because I think it's doesn't give away the farm, but is a nice tool to help you ask yourself appropriate questions. "Opening the Door to Certainty."
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
Karma Tashi G.
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Re: Classic Kagyü Mahāmudrā Texts

Post by Karma Tashi G. »

conebeckham wrote:As a fan of books, (and of whisky), I appreciate all your sentiments. :twothumbsup:

Frankly, I like Bokar Rinpoche's little condensation of Ngedon Gyamtso the best, because I think it's doesn't give away the farm, but is a nice tool to help you ask yourself appropriate questions. "Opening the Door to Certainty."

Bokar Rinpoche is a very high lama and I have seen that little book! I am now in my 65th year and reading long books, makes me fall asleep!

KTG
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Re: Classic Kagyü Mahāmudrā Texts

Post by Tao »

I would like to add two (I think they're not listed, forgive me please if I'm wrong):

Gampopa teaches essence Mahamudra

and

Drukchen Pagma Karpo's Collected works on Mahamudra

both traslated by Tony Duff at PKTC.org

http://www.pktc.org/pktc/books/GampopaT ... amudra.htm
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Re: Classic Kagyü Mahāmudrā Texts

Post by Daniel Aitken »

Karma Tashi G. wrote: Wed Nov 20, 2013 7:23 pm
conebeckham wrote:As a fan of books, (and of whisky), I appreciate all your sentiments. :twothumbsup:

Frankly, I like Bokar Rinpoche's little condensation of Ngedon Gyamtso the best, because I think it's doesn't give away the farm, but is a nice tool to help you ask yourself appropriate questions. "Opening the Door to Certainty."

Bokar Rinpoche is a very high lama and I have seen that little book! I am now in my 65th year and reading long books, makes me fall asleep!

KTG
There is a commentary coming out in April on this text by Zurmang Gharwang Rinpoche called Mahamudra: A Practical Guide. It is a fantastic book! Here is the description:

At the heart of this book are Rinpoche’s practical instructions on how to settle the mind and meditate in a way that directly works with the mind, with the aim of discovering and becoming familiar with the nature of the mind. These instructions are given as commentary to a short text written by Bokar Rinpoche, which is itself a concise commentary on the Ninth Gyalwa Karmapa Wangchuk Dorjé’s Ocean of Definitive Meaning, which is considered to be one of the most authoritative and exhaustive treatises on Mahamudra.

edit: I can't seem to drop in the link, but if you google the title you will see the book come up on Amazon.
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Re: Classic Kagyü Mahāmudrā Texts

Post by Schrödinger’s Yidam »

Knowing the answers can actually get in the way of finding them out for oneself.
The importance of discovering something for yourself in Dharma I believe is a fundamental principle. It is the difference between something that can sound trivial and having a revelation of profound Truth. It makes it “not dogma”.

That is also my understanding of what the Kamala Sutta is trying to convey.
Though sometimes not.
:shrug:
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
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