Pero wrote:Malcolm, do you now believe that achieving Buddhahood is possible outside of Buddhism and Bon (including Dzogchen)?
Acheiving Buddhahood has always been possible outside of "Buddhism". There was no Buddhism when appeared. or when Tonpa Shenrab appeared. Or when Ngon Dzog Gyalpo, appeared. Etc. In fact, Ngondzog Gyalpo left no Buddhist sangha behind. Nor when Zhonnu Pawo Tobden appeared, or Nangwa Dampa, etc.
Then there are pratyekabuddhas. They in fact often appear in the garb of so called non-Buddhist ascetics.
Nagarjuna has said that even if there are no Buddhas in the world, it is always possible to for there to be liberation anyway since the reality of phenomena is always present.
So yes I think it is possible. I do not think any longer that liberation is the sole province of Buddhists.
This has been an interesting discussion thus far. For me it is so as an outsider, so I was thinking it would be helpful if I understood some of the terms better.
In general, I find that Dzogchen as a tradition is very good a promoting itself, mainly by saying it's the highest, fastest etc, even instantaneous for goodness sake, but when you look, it has many many methods and practices, and seems to take the practitioner nothing short of his or her whole life to actualize the result, if they do a lot of study and practice. Just like everything else.
In particular, I am interested to hear what some of you CNN folks have to say about distinguishing the base from kun zhi, as I want to understand what it is that one recognizes when one recognizes rigpa. As you know, it looks to Mahamudra people that you are just talking about recognizing the nature of the mind, but I am told it is different than this. It seems from CNN's explanation, which I re-read recently after reading crystal and the way of light years ago, that the base is the emptiness, clarity and energy of the mind. Is this accurate? I think a good discussion on this would be helpful to clarify misunderstandings
could you please explain? What is the difference between recognizing the nature of the mind and recognizing rigpa?