Reiki

Discuss any health or dietary topics which lie outside mainstream Western medical thinking, from Ayurveda to Reiki.
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Grigoris
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Re: Reiki

Post by Grigoris » Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:19 pm

Vasana wrote:I'm not here to engage in some kind of personal debate with you anyway because internet debates are a waste of energy most of the time.
I have nothing to prove to you anyway and simply just wanted to share some experiences and ideas with the hope of some varied discussion. :smile:
My dear Vasasana, varied discussion includes dissension. ;)
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Vasana
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Re: Reiki

Post by Vasana » Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:20 pm

agreed, which is why i stand by what i've said so far in the thread :smile:
"The changing cycle of joy and sorrow, like the changing seasons –
As a time of suffering will surely come around to me,
May I truly practice the sublime teachings."
- Dudjom Rinpoche

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WuMing
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Re: Reiki

Post by WuMing » Sun Feb 22, 2015 9:19 pm

Vasana wrote:Reiki is essentially a condensed form of Seed-syllable/Bīja , mantrayana/Vajrayana + Shingon practice. ...
Reiki is definitely not a Shingon practice and has nothing to do with the Shingon tradition. As Meido already said, there might be some Buddhist influence in Reiki, but Reiki certainly isn't Buddhist, or a Shingon practice, respectively.

Mikao Usui developed his own system, which might be influenced by some Buddhist schools/thought, no more no less.
今以佛眼觀之佛與眾生同住解脫之床。無此無彼無二平等。
Now, observing with the eye of the Buddha, both the Buddha and ordinary beings are in the same liberated state. There is neither this nor that: there is only non-duality and identity.
- 空海 Kūkai in Unjigi 吽字義 The Meaning of the Letter Hūṃ
- Kūkai on the Philosophy of Language by Takagi Shingen and Dreitlein Eijō
_______
Śrī Singha said to Padmasambhava:
Since buddhas and sentient beings are inseparable and the same, it is necessary to respect all sentient beings as being on the same level with the buddhas. Can you?
- translated by Malcolm N. Smith

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Vasana
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Re: Reiki

Post by Vasana » Sun Feb 22, 2015 9:42 pm

So long as a condensed form of the Hrih syllable exists as a Reiki symbol, then the corresponding Buddha-family ,Dakini and activity will always be an energetic part of the process.
Buddhas' emanate in the form of light-rays and the syllables and mantras are invocations and attunements of such.

It has a name and a system ascribed to it, but any practices related with the subtle body don't belong to any one system or not.
Subtle body practice is the same regardless of what it's been known as in each country.
"The changing cycle of joy and sorrow, like the changing seasons –
As a time of suffering will surely come around to me,
May I truly practice the sublime teachings."
- Dudjom Rinpoche

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Re: Reiki

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Sun Feb 22, 2015 9:57 pm

I've always been skeptical of it not due to it's origins, but due to the fact that people with no real previous training can go to weekend seminars and become "masters". I'm convinced that some level of energy/body work is real..just not from most people who do Reiki. I've felt stuff from acupuncture and qigong, etc. and what felt from Reiki people was just someone putting their hands above me...and that's coming from me, someone who is not even a skeptic on such things.

I used to be a massage therapist, went to massage school etc., and can tell you, as it stands in the US 99.9% of "Reiki masters" are LMP's who went to a weekend seminar, and paid a few hundred bucks to get something else they could add to their credentials.
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Vasana
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Re: Reiki

Post by Vasana » Mon Feb 23, 2015 11:32 am

Johnny Dangerous wrote:I've always been skeptical of it not due to it's origins, but due to the fact that people with no real previous training can go to weekend seminars and become "masters". I'm convinced that some level of energy/body work is real..just not from most people who do Reiki. I've felt stuff from acupuncture and qigong, etc. and what felt from Reiki people was just someone putting their hands above me...and that's coming from me, someone who is not even a skeptic on such things.

I used to be a massage therapist, went to massage school etc., and can tell you, as it stands in the US 99.9% of "Reiki masters" are LMP's who went to a weekend seminar, and paid a few hundred bucks to get something else they could add to their credentials.
I completely agree with you here. Unfortunately reiki is something the new-age industries have lapped up and capitalized on like anything else but that doesn't mean that an authentic practice isn't buried underneath all of the money-grabbing antics and popular misconceptions.

And as for you not feeling anything- could either be due to ;

a) the Reiki practitioners actual level of skill not being as high as they say it is (not certification and credentials ,but actual physical,mental and energetic skill at utilizing and redirecting Reiki /Prana/rlung )
b) the energy of reiki /prana/rlung is very subtle so unless you're already familiar with the channels winds and energy, then you're not't likely going to feel much , but different people can react in different ways. Like medicine, some people will feel it working on them slowly over time in subtle inner ways rather than right there on the spot.

Like any practice, you study,get the atunement, empowerment, transmission and then you practice.....People that merely go to a weekend seminar and pay for a Reiki master 'degree' , without putting in the years required to actually familiarize and progressively work with refining the subtlety of the energy are only deceiving themselves and those they then charge extortionate fees for a transfer of energy they're not completely capable of giving.
"The changing cycle of joy and sorrow, like the changing seasons –
As a time of suffering will surely come around to me,
May I truly practice the sublime teachings."
- Dudjom Rinpoche

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Vasana
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Re: Reiki

Post by Vasana » Mon Feb 23, 2015 11:45 am

I guess if there's anything i genuinely want people to take from this thread,

regardless of whether you believe in the authenticity of reiki or not , is to actively investigate the inner meaning and Luminosity of seed-syllables ( Bīja )


Image Hrih

Image
"The changing cycle of joy and sorrow, like the changing seasons –
As a time of suffering will surely come around to me,
May I truly practice the sublime teachings."
- Dudjom Rinpoche

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Grigoris
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Re: Reiki

Post by Grigoris » Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:45 pm

OMG, I think I have just effectively proven that Picasso was a Vajrayana Buddhist!!!

Image
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: Reiki

Post by Dan74 » Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:43 pm

Sherab Dorje wrote:OMG, I think I have just effectively proven that Picasso was a Vajrayana Buddhist!!!

Image
Wow! There's a paper in this!! :D

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Vasana
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Re: Reiki

Post by Vasana » Mon Feb 23, 2015 6:44 pm

:twothumbsup:

Apophenia is cool, but it's probably better not to hold any presumptions for or against unless something unless you explore it.

The symbols may appear as mere lines and squiggles to some or as the condensed light-activity of the Lotus family to others.

maybe this isn't the place for this discussion anyway.
"The changing cycle of joy and sorrow, like the changing seasons –
As a time of suffering will surely come around to me,
May I truly practice the sublime teachings."
- Dudjom Rinpoche

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Re: Reiki

Post by WuMing » Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:37 pm

Vasana wrote:.... more in depth info found here >
the Big Book of Reiki Symbols:
I had a look at the book, lots of new-age mumbo-jumbo. In a brief look at the website of the author Mark Hosak I found this: aomong other trainings/educations one can start a spiritual training/education there in order to become a
Shingon Monk - Buddhist spiritual healer and meditation master (meditation, eastern magic, clearings- and rituals)
Here is someone trying to sell his stuff. IMO, very obscure!

Once and for all: The Japanese Shingon Tradition founded by Kukai has nothing to do with Reiki, at all. Mikao Usui devoloped his own system and I am not sure if he would agree at all with all the nonsense what so many people try to associate with Reiki or try to connect to Reiki.
今以佛眼觀之佛與眾生同住解脫之床。無此無彼無二平等。
Now, observing with the eye of the Buddha, both the Buddha and ordinary beings are in the same liberated state. There is neither this nor that: there is only non-duality and identity.
- 空海 Kūkai in Unjigi 吽字義 The Meaning of the Letter Hūṃ
- Kūkai on the Philosophy of Language by Takagi Shingen and Dreitlein Eijō
_______
Śrī Singha said to Padmasambhava:
Since buddhas and sentient beings are inseparable and the same, it is necessary to respect all sentient beings as being on the same level with the buddhas. Can you?
- translated by Malcolm N. Smith

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Vasana
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Re: Reiki

Post by Vasana » Tue Feb 24, 2015 11:19 am

WuMing wrote:Once and for all: The Japanese Shingon Tradition founded by Kukai has nothing to do with Reiki, at all. Mikao Usui devoloped his own system and I am not sure if he would agree at all with all the nonsense what so many people try to associate with Reiki or try to connect to Reiki.
I would agree to some extent with both of those sentences. At this point it's worth remembering that although Reiki evolved as it's own system, it's foundations are rooted in subtle-body and energy practices related to Chi,Qi,Ki, Prana, Lung etc and that it utilizes syllables and scripts which pre-date Japanese origin and script. There are latter mantras used within the Reiki-system which are not symbolic but use the Kanji script , such as the 'Dai-Ko-Myo' part of the mantra "shikin haramitsu dai ko myo" as mentioned earlier in the thread.

I suppose it all depends on if people are open to the possibility of the gradual evolution of the Hrīḥ seed syllables and the evolution of scripts and symbols in general as they traverse the lands and ages. As far as i presently know , the syllable Hrīḥ is still employed within certain Shingon mantras traditions and practices ?

One of the various names for Buddha Amitābha is Infinite light. It's not too far-fetched given how receptive we are to the open-ended universe of Dharma, to assume that these mantras,syllables and scripts have been spoken and given directly from the Tathāgatas and scribed by the hands of the Dakinis and Gurus/Teachers for the purpose of invoking the same light, energy and mental clarity which dispels all inner, outer and subtle obscurations of mind,body and energy.

The Buddhas are continuously transmitting the Dharma and continuously emanating light rays to illuminate the darkness of suffering and it's causes leading towards it's cessation. The whole point of seed-syllables/Bīja and mantra is to attune ourselves to the blessings,light and energy which are already inherent within our own nature.

Although Reiki,along with many spiritual and religious systems have been hijacked by $piritual-Mat£rialsm, there are still authentic practitioners out there.

To be honest, talking to you lot about Dharma is kind of like 'preaching to the converted' and maybe it's actually the Reiki-folk who could benefit more from being opened up to the possibilities of the Dharma and not the other way round. (Although i still think Reiki is completely compatible and complimentary to Dharma-practice)

If people prefer to be more trusting towards the energy-practices from older and more established Yogic and Daoist systems than Reiki is ,then i can completely understand that.So long as we remember that the techniques related to subtle energy are global and arise differently dependent on era,geographic location, culture & people etc

I hope there's at least a wide enough spectrum of opinion here for people to make their own informed choices and decisions anyway.

ह्रीः ह्रीः ह्रीः
"The changing cycle of joy and sorrow, like the changing seasons –
As a time of suffering will surely come around to me,
May I truly practice the sublime teachings."
- Dudjom Rinpoche

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Re: Reiki

Post by Redfaery » Tue Feb 24, 2015 4:14 pm

Some of my friends have gotten messed up from having reiki pushed on them without their permission. So....I think it is a bit far-fetched to say it's a transmission from the Buddhas.
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Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever. - GANDHI
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Re: Reiki

Post by Jeff » Tue Feb 24, 2015 4:45 pm

Reiki is like putting a brand on the energy body. Can be helpful at the body level, but locks in certain aspects and forms. Such attachment to form is always problematic in the long run.

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Re: Reiki

Post by Malcolm » Tue Feb 24, 2015 4:56 pm

Vasana wrote:So long as a condensed form of the Hrih syllable exists as a Reiki symbol, then the corresponding Buddha-family ,Dakini and activity will always be an energetic part of the process.
Buddhas' emanate in the form of light-rays and the syllables and mantras are invocations and attunements of such.
No, this is not the case. For a person who has not received abhisheka there is no connection, no dependent origination has been established, and so on.

Reiki is not and never will be a Vajrayāna system of any kind.
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འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


The knowledge imparted through the guru’s instructions that formerly was unknown (avidyā) is vidyā.


—Treasury of the Supreme Vehicle, Longchenpa.

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Re: Reiki

Post by WuMing » Tue Feb 24, 2015 5:51 pm

Vasana wrote: ... the syllable Hrīḥ is still employed within certain Shingon mantras traditions and practices ? ...
Yes, there is hrīḥ in Shingon but as Malcolm already pointed out
Malcolm wrote:For a person who has not received abhisheka there is no connection, no dependent origination has been established, and so on.
Otherwise it is just mumbo jumbo. Period. Reiki is not Buddhism or Shingon or Vajrayana at all. Why don't you use the Reiki symbol just as Sei Heki, as it is intended? There is no need to marry Reiki to any kind of Buddhist tradition.

You are free to believe whatever you want, of course, but don't claim that the symbols used in Reiki come from any form of Vajrayana lineage. Mikao Usui made the Reiki symbols up with a particular intention and purpose.

The use of bīja in Shingon or any other Vajrayana lineage and the use of Reiki symbols in Reiki are two entirely different things. Reiki symbols are not bīja.

Why is this so difficult to understand and accept? Stick with your Reiki tradition, if it works for you, and don't start to mix things together. This would be my recommendation.
今以佛眼觀之佛與眾生同住解脫之床。無此無彼無二平等。
Now, observing with the eye of the Buddha, both the Buddha and ordinary beings are in the same liberated state. There is neither this nor that: there is only non-duality and identity.
- 空海 Kūkai in Unjigi 吽字義 The Meaning of the Letter Hūṃ
- Kūkai on the Philosophy of Language by Takagi Shingen and Dreitlein Eijō
_______
Śrī Singha said to Padmasambhava:
Since buddhas and sentient beings are inseparable and the same, it is necessary to respect all sentient beings as being on the same level with the buddhas. Can you?
- translated by Malcolm N. Smith

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Re: Reiki

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:26 pm

Vasana wrote:
Johnny Dangerous wrote:I've always been skeptical of it not due to it's origins, but due to the fact that people with no real previous training can go to weekend seminars and become "masters". I'm convinced that some level of energy/body work is real..just not from most people who do Reiki. I've felt stuff from acupuncture and qigong, etc. and what felt from Reiki people was just someone putting their hands above me...and that's coming from me, someone who is not even a skeptic on such things.

I used to be a massage therapist, went to massage school etc., and can tell you, as it stands in the US 99.9% of "Reiki masters" are LMP's who went to a weekend seminar, and paid a few hundred bucks to get something else they could add to their credentials.
I completely agree with you here. Unfortunately reiki is something the new-age industries have lapped up and capitalized on like anything else but that doesn't mean that an authentic practice isn't buried underneath all of the money-grabbing antics and popular misconceptions.

And as for you not feeling anything- could either be due to ;

a) the Reiki practitioners actual level of skill not being as high as they say it is (not certification and credentials ,but actual physical,mental and energetic skill at utilizing and redirecting Reiki /Prana/rlung )
b) the energy of reiki /prana/rlung is very subtle so unless you're already familiar with the channels winds and energy, then you're not't likely going to feel much , but different people can react in different ways. Like medicine, some people will feel it working on them slowly over time in subtle inner ways rather than right there on the spot.

Like any practice, you study,get the atunement, empowerment, transmission and then you practice.....People that merely go to a weekend seminar and pay for a Reiki master 'degree' , without putting in the years required to actually familiarize and progressively work with refining the subtlety of the energy are only deceiving themselves and those they then charge extortionate fees for a transfer of energy they're not completely capable of giving.
The problem with Reiki is, at least in the US, of the literally hundreds of people I've met who 'do Reiki' on some level, they almost all are of the weekend seminar variety, and I doubt the quality of the teachers at the seminars anyway. There is not enough learned at those seminars IMO for people to get anywhere, even.if they try really hard.

I don't dount energy work, but I have yet to see one reiki practitioner who seemed qualified....just my experience. Keep in mind, I've both gone to school for, and worked in the bodywork field for a number of years, I've seen a big cross section of these folks, gotten treatments etc. I had all of one that was effective, and I put that down to the unique abilities of the individual in question.

Maybe there's legit Reiki that's different to what I'm seeing, if so it must be pretty rare.
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

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Re: Reiki

Post by Redfaery » Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:41 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:Maybe there's legit Reiki that's different to what I'm seeing, if so it must be pretty rare.
There is, I think. I've encountered people online who seemed to be much more down-to-earth with it, and who were very responsible in general. But they tended to also be much more adept with energy work as a whole, and reiki wasn't an end-all, be-all to them...indeed, for the particular individual I'm thinking of, it was a very small part of her practices.

FYI, the pagan crowd I run with has a name for the sort of attitude you're describing: "Nuage" - rhymes with "sewage."
NAMO SARASWATI DEVI
Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever. - GANDHI
I am a delicate feminine flower!!!!

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Vasana
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Re: Reiki

Post by Vasana » Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:38 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Vasana wrote:So long as a condensed form of the Hrih syllable exists as a Reiki symbol, then the corresponding Buddha-family ,Dakini and activity will always be an energetic part of the process.
Buddhas' emanate in the form of light-rays and the syllables and mantras are invocations and attunements of such.
No, this is not the case. For a person who has not received abhisheka there is no connection, no dependent origination has been established, and so on.

Reiki is not and never will be a Vajrayāna system of any kind.
And what about for a person who has theoretically recieved abhisheka and/or established a connection? Is abhisheka the only way to establish a connection? What about Puja?

I agree that reiki is not a Vajrayāna system in it's self, just that it utilizes syllables, one of which i still maintain as a variation of Hrih.

And WuMing, i appreciate your recommendation, but still believe that reiki or any energy practice for that matter ( ones working with prana, lung , chi , ki, qi etc can only ever be beneficial and compatible with more systematic teachings within Vajryana which concentrate on tsalung/wind & channels aswell as the other various yoga,tantras and pranayama practices that were already present before reaching Tibet.

As for Reiki and Buddhism, they're either a: different but possibly connected, or b: different and not connected, right?

If they're not connected by the Hrih symbol, then they're at the very least connected by the fact that within both, there are practices for working with mind-body & energy, many reiki practitioners also follow yogic teachings too.

Becoming familiar with reiki and becoming familiar with prana, rlung etc are not completely oppositional things although admitedly the yogic teachings on prana and rlung are much more systematic and advanced than the stand-alone healing-modality of Reiki, but the fundamental essence is the same, co-ordinating mind -body and energy for the purpose of transmitting that energy /reiki/prana/lung to others directly and indirectly.

I appreciate all of your replies .Out of interest, I'll see what the differences in reaction are when i mention some of these ideas to people that i know that practice Reiki but don't follow any Dharma. Hopefully it'll at least sow some seeds.
"The changing cycle of joy and sorrow, like the changing seasons –
As a time of suffering will surely come around to me,
May I truly practice the sublime teachings."
- Dudjom Rinpoche

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Malcolm
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Re: Reiki

Post by Malcolm » Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:51 pm

Vasana wrote: Is abhisheka the only way to establish a connection?
Yes.

What about Puja?
No.
I agree that reiki is not a Vajrayāna system in it's self, just that it utilizes syllables, one of which i still maintain as a variation of Hrih.
It has no more value that Hrih, i.e. the English letters, HRIH, from a Vajrayāna perspective.

It is best not to conflate systems. Of course, now, someone is going to fabricate a Vajrayāna Reiki, invent an empowerment for it and so on, it is only a matter of time...
Atikosha
Tibetan Medicine Blog
Sudarsana Mandala, Tibetan Medicine and Herbs
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


The knowledge imparted through the guru’s instructions that formerly was unknown (avidyā) is vidyā.


—Treasury of the Supreme Vehicle, Longchenpa.

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