Scholastic Method came from Buddhist viharas (2)

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Fortyeightvows
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Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2014 2:37 am

Scholastic Method came from Buddhist viharas (2)

Post by Fortyeightvows »

https://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?t=22497
Wayfarer wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:18 am Very interesting! This Beckwith sounds someone worth reading.
Zla'od wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:21 am He is indeed. Here's his latest:

(His title "Greek Buddha" refers to Pyrrho, not Shakyamuni.)
Wayfarer wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:23 am I am familiar with the Buddhist=Pyrrhonist connection from earlier sources (notably Adam Kuzminski), and I think there's a lot of truth in it. I'm sure that the original sceptics were very close to Nāgārjuna in spirit.
Zla'od wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2016 1:39 pm It's an interesting line of thought (or several lines of thought), and I'm glad to see some iconoclastic approaches to the historical Buddha (if indeed he can be said to have existed as a historical figure). Jayarava Attwood has written on this as well.

I don't see any reason to suppose that Pyrrho's gymnosophists were Buddhist (as they would need to have been for Beckwith to use Pyrrho as an early source of historical information on Buddha). They seem to have been yogis of some sort, but we know that Buddhists and non-Buddhists routinely borrowed from one another. Just because Pyrrho sometimes sounds like Nagarjuna later, doesn't mean they didn't both get their ideas from some other source.

And while I am intrigued by the radical revision (not just by Beckwith) of Shakyamuni's biography and theology, I wonder whether we can so confidently state that "Shakya-" refers to Sakas / Scythians; or that Shakyamuni must have come from Gandhara rather than the Terai, and was hardly an Indian at all; or that his teachings would have represented a classical Iranian pagan reaction against Zoroastrianism. I can appreciate that at this late date, it is hard to recover any firm historical information about him at all, however tempting it might be to believe the more plausible-sounding details supplied by the Pali canon.
Fortyeightvows
Posts: 2880
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2014 2:37 am

Re: Scholastic Method came from Buddhist viharas (2)

Post by Fortyeightvows »

Zla'od wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2016 1:39 pm I wonder whether we can so confidently state that "Shakya-" refers to Sakas / Scythians; or that Shakyamuni must have come from Gandhara rather than the Terai, and was hardly an Indian at all; or that his teachings would have represented a classical Iranian pagan reaction against Zoroastrianism.
I am also very interested in what people think of these two ideas. Anyone has an opinion on this I'd like to hear it.
Crazywisdom
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Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 5:48 pm

Re: Scholastic Method came from Buddhist viharas (2)

Post by Crazywisdom »

Fortyeightvows wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 3:39 am
Zla'od wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2016 1:39 pm I wonder whether we can so confidently state that "Shakya-" refers to Sakas / Scythians; or that Shakyamuni must have come from Gandhara rather than the Terai, and was hardly an Indian at all; or that his teachings would have represented a classical Iranian pagan reaction against Zoroastrianism.
I am also very interested in what people think of these two ideas. Anyone has an opinion on this I'd like to hear it.
It is probably true the Shakya clan originated in Central Asia just as the Jats and many others did but then fought their way through India settling where they liked.
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