Dreloma decides 487 bce

A forum for those wishing to discuss Buddhist history and teachings in the Western academic manner, referencing appropriate sources.
Post Reply
Nicholas Weeks
Posts: 4209
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 4:21 am
Location: California

Dreloma decides 487 bce

Post by Nicholas Weeks »

The 2016 issue of Dreloma, the Drepung Library periodical has a thorough article on the correct date for Buddha's nirvana. It gives supporting evidence for and against the Tibetan, Chinese, Sri Lankan dates. Using mainly the dates of kings of Ceylon and India, the author picks 487 bce as most likely.

Western scholars picked this date some years ago, so it was interesting to see Sonam Morup compare all the estimates and side with the West.
May all seek, find & follow the Path of Buddhas.
Jayarava
Posts: 59
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:31 pm
Contact:

Re: Dreloma decides 487 bce

Post by Jayarava »

Actually the Western scholarly consensus is ca. 400 BCE and has been for a couple of decades. In 1991 Bechert summed up the mood of the 1988 Symposien zur Buddhismusforschung, dedicated to this issue:
The general consensus now is that the Buddha lived his whole life during the 4th century BC and that the exact dates of his birth and death cannot be established. This lack of certainty in no way casts doubt on the Buddha's historicity but merely reflects the ancient Indians lack of concern about chronology. - H. Bechert (Ed.) Dating the Historical Buddha. Göttingen.
He notes that most Buddhists prefer another date (i.e. 487 BCE). However, subsequently Richard Gombrich made a pitch for a definite date of the parinibbāna at 404 BCE. This seems now to be accepted by many scholars. Refer to my essay Dating the Buddha (2008) where I go over the issue and list the more recent sources.
User avatar
Grigoris
Former staff member
Posts: 21938
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Dreloma decides 487 bce

Post by Grigoris »

Coz if we we don't know exactly when he died, we won't be able to liberate ourselves from samsara, right? :)

Something about arrows and poison comes to mind...
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Malcolm
Posts: 42974
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Dreloma decides 487 bce

Post by Malcolm »

Nicholas Weeks wrote:The 2016 issue of Dreloma, the Drepung Library periodical has a thorough article on the correct date for Buddha's nirvana. It gives supporting evidence for and against the Tibetan, Chinese, Sri Lankan dates. Using mainly the dates of kings of Ceylon and India, the author picks 487 bce as most likely.

Western scholars picked this date some years ago, so it was interesting to see Sonam Morup compare all the estimates and side with the West.

Newest dates are 407 BCE, cf Gombrich, Cousins. This also is more in line with the accounts preserved in Dzogchen annals.
Nicholas Weeks
Posts: 4209
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 4:21 am
Location: California

Re: Dreloma decides 487 bce

Post by Nicholas Weeks »

Malcolm wrote:
Nicholas Weeks wrote:The 2016 issue of Dreloma, the Drepung Library periodical has a thorough article on the correct date for Buddha's nirvana. It gives supporting evidence for and against the Tibetan, Chinese, Sri Lankan dates. Using mainly the dates of kings of Ceylon and India, the author picks 487 bce as most likely.

Western scholars picked this date some years ago, so it was interesting to see Sonam Morup compare all the estimates and side with the West.

Newest dates are 407 BCE, cf Gombrich, Cousins. This also is more in line with the accounts preserved in Dzogchen annals.
Curious numbers now - born ca. 487-407bce

So Dzogchen annals do not go with 8 or 900 bce?
May all seek, find & follow the Path of Buddhas.
User avatar
Leo Rivers
Posts: 498
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:52 am
Contact:

Re: Dreloma decides 487 bce

Post by Leo Rivers »

Actually the 404 Error and 407 BCE dates are very important. They link up to 'recorded history' in the secular sense. I will have to dig deep to get the pdf version of the paper, but an ancient monastic site found a few years back contained lists of two parallel monk lineages back in a convincing way that would locate the final nirvana at this decade. The site's archaeological and epigraphical evidence are pretty solid as I recall... which is sorta.


I apologize to all those who still maintain Gautama was a Mediterranean Solar God welded to a Shiite Hermes reliquary.

:namaste:
User avatar
Leo Rivers
Posts: 498
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:52 am
Contact:

Re: Dreloma decides 487 bce Got The Materials

Post by Leo Rivers »

Re:

Oskar von Hinüber and Peter Skilling:
Two Buddhist Inscriptions from Deorkothar (Dist. Rewa, Madhya Pradesh) [16 figures]. S. 13-26
http://indologica.de/drupal/?q=node/2737


Observations on the Deorkothar Inscriptions and Their Significance for the Evaluation of Buddhist Historical Traditions
by Richard SALOMON
and Joseph MARINO
http://www.academia.edu/13763245/Observ ... Traditions
“Yet, there is an important positive conclusion to be drawn from all this fuzzy data:in the words of vH&S, “it is not at all impossible that this is a lineage going back to theBuddha” (p. 17). Although we cannot prove that the lineages in the two Deorthorkarinscriptions are historically authentic, they provide material that is far older than anyother documentary evidence of this kind. Moreover, even though their date, determinedonly by paleographic comparisons, cannot be determined with any precision, it is still atleast broadly consistent with what would be expected if the lineages are historically genuine.”
Post Reply

Return to “Academic Discussion”