what the buddha didn't teach

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Odin
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what the buddha didn't teach

Post by Odin » Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:54 pm

Is there a good book or article that lists all the things added to Buddhism that wasn't originally taught by the first buddha?
I know there is a book on what he taught( "what the buddha taught"). Does that book tell specifically all the things that were later added by chance?

Maybe I really want just a list of ideas he didn't teach. For example like I've heard that he didn't teach chakras... etc.
Perhaps a short article on the internet that summarizes a list of what he didn't teach that was later added by other buddhas.

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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: what the buddha didn't teach

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:10 am

Odin wrote:Is there a good book or article that lists all the things added to Buddhism that wasn't originally taught by the first buddha?
I know there is a book on what he taught( "what the buddha taught"). Does that book tell specifically all the things that were later added by chance?

Maybe I really want just a list of ideas he didn't teach. For example like I've heard that he didn't teach chakras... etc.
Perhaps a short article on the internet that summarizes a list of what he didn't teach that was later added by other buddhas.
There are different schools of thought, but even from a purely historical viewpoint, no one actually knows the limits of what Shakyamuni taught.


This is not a point of view you will find heavily represented on this particular site at any rate, being a site for Mahayana folk.

You might want to check the sister site http://www.dhammawheel.com and ask questions there, as well as peruse http://www.accesstoinsight.com and explore the Pali Suttas yourself.
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

-Jeff H.

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Sādhaka
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Re: what the buddha didn't teach

Post by Sādhaka » Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:33 am

Has anyone been able to find out at what times the webcast will be going live?
“...we should try to acquire clairvoyance. Without it, we are like a baby bird whose wings are undeveloped and has not yet grown feathers and remains stuck in its nest, unable to fly. Without clairvoyance, we cannot work for other sentient beings.” — Khunu Lama
“Just as a bird can not fly without both wings,
The welfare of others cannot be accomplished without the higher faculties of perception,
So diligently strive for your own wellbeing, whilst mentally considering the welfare of others.” — Longchenpa

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Wayfarer
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Re: what the buddha didn't teach

Post by Wayfarer » Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:06 am

Odin wrote: Perhaps a short article on the internet that summarizes a list of what he didn't teach that was later added by other buddhas.
There haven't been 'other Buddha's' since Siddhartha Gautama. You might read that some lineage-holders are regarded as 'living Buddhas', but a formally-designated Buddha hasn't lived since Gautama. (There is the prophesied Buddha to come, namely, Maitreya, subject of considerable legend.)

If you're asking how Buddhism developed subsequent to the Buddha's parinirvana, some good titles on that question are Edward Conze, Buddhism: It's Essence and Development and Rupert Gethin: The Foundations of Buddhism.
Only practice with no gaining idea ~ Suzuki Roshi

Rakz
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Re: what the buddha didn't teach

Post by Rakz » Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:16 am

Odin wrote:Is there a good book or article that lists all the things added to Buddhism that wasn't originally taught by the first buddha?
I know there is a book on what he taught( "what the buddha taught"). Does that book tell specifically all the things that were later added by chance?

Maybe I really want just a list of ideas he didn't teach. For example like I've heard that he didn't teach chakras... etc.
Perhaps a short article on the internet that summarizes a list of what he didn't teach that was later added by other buddhas.
Check out the first four nikayas of the sutta pitaka. They contain the actual words of Shakyamuni.

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Grigoris
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Re: what the buddha didn't teach

Post by Grigoris » Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:01 am

Odin wrote:Is there a good book or article that lists all the things added to Buddhism that wasn't originally taught by the first buddha?
You mean by Buddha Taṇhaṃkara? ;)
Maybe I really want just a list of ideas he didn't teach. For example like I've heard that he didn't teach chakras... etc.
He taught Tantra so why would he not have taught chakras? Who told you he did not teach chakras?

All Sutra are the actual words of the Buddha.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Wayfarer
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Re: what the buddha didn't teach

Post by Wayfarer » Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:40 am

Do you find teachings about chakra anywhere apart from tantra or Buddhist yoga?
Only practice with no gaining idea ~ Suzuki Roshi

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PuerAzaelis
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Re: what the buddha didn't teach

Post by PuerAzaelis » Fri Apr 07, 2017 3:49 pm

Rakz wrote:Check out the first four nikayas of the sutta pitaka. They contain the actual words of Shakyamuni.
That's optimistic.
Generally, enjoyment of speech is the gateway to poor [results]. So it becomes the foundation for generating all negative emotional states. Jampel Pawo, The Certainty of the Diamond Mind

For posts from this user, see Karma Dondrup Tashi account.

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Grigoris
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Re: what the buddha didn't teach

Post by Grigoris » Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:41 pm

Wayfarer wrote:Do you find teachings about chakra anywhere apart from tantra or Buddhist yoga?
Do you find teachings about karma anywhere apart from Buddhism?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Thomas Amundsen
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Re: what the buddha didn't teach

Post by Thomas Amundsen » Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:24 pm

Grigoris wrote:All Sutra are the actual words of the Buddha.
And tantra! :twothumbsup:

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Grigoris
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Re: what the buddha didn't teach

Post by Grigoris » Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:47 pm

tomamundsen wrote:
Grigoris wrote:All Sutra are the actual words of the Buddha.
And tantra! :twothumbsup:
Yeah, that was in my previous sentence. ;)
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Sādhaka
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Re: what the buddha didn't teach

Post by Sādhaka » Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:58 pm

Sādhaka wrote:Has anyone been able to find out at what times the webcast will be going live?
:oops:

Wrong thread.
“...we should try to acquire clairvoyance. Without it, we are like a baby bird whose wings are undeveloped and has not yet grown feathers and remains stuck in its nest, unable to fly. Without clairvoyance, we cannot work for other sentient beings.” — Khunu Lama
“Just as a bird can not fly without both wings,
The welfare of others cannot be accomplished without the higher faculties of perception,
So diligently strive for your own wellbeing, whilst mentally considering the welfare of others.” — Longchenpa

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dzogchungpa
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Re: what the buddha didn't teach

Post by dzogchungpa » Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:25 pm

Odin wrote:Is there a good book or article that lists all the things added to Buddhism that wasn't originally taught by the first buddha?.
According to the Diamond Sutra the Buddha didn't teach anything at all so I guess everything else was a later addition.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

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Thomas Amundsen
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Re: what the buddha didn't teach

Post by Thomas Amundsen » Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:28 pm

Grigoris wrote:
tomamundsen wrote:
Grigoris wrote:All Sutra are the actual words of the Buddha.
And tantra! :twothumbsup:
Yeah, that was in my previous sentence. ;)
:oops:

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Grigoris
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Re: what the buddha didn't teach

Post by Grigoris » Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:33 pm

dzogchungpa wrote:According to the Diamond Sutra the Buddha didn't teach anything at all so I guess everything else was a later addition.
:rolling:
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Wayfarer
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Re: what the buddha didn't teach

Post by Wayfarer » Fri Apr 07, 2017 11:50 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Wayfarer wrote:Do you find teachings about chakra anywhere apart from tantra or Buddhist yoga?
Do you find teachings about karma anywhere apart from Buddhism?
Of course - the idea of karma pre-existed the Buddha, but he adapted it from the Brahmins so as to free it from the reliance on ritualised sacrifices and so on. Even the Bible says 'as you sow, so shall you reap.'

My understanding is that tantric and yogic practices are generic to Indian culture and were adapted and modified by Buddhism, so that Buddhist tantra and Buddhist yoga developed. Although, that said, I think the teaching of 'stages of dhyana' were certainly taught by the Buddha. But the esoteric aspects of chakra, and the like, I would not be so sure of.
Last edited by Wayfarer on Sat Apr 08, 2017 12:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
Only practice with no gaining idea ~ Suzuki Roshi

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Malcolm
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Re: what the buddha didn't teach

Post by Malcolm » Fri Apr 07, 2017 11:52 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Wayfarer wrote:Do you find teachings about chakra anywhere apart from tantra or Buddhist yoga?
Do you find teachings about karma anywhere apart from Buddhism?

HInduism, Jainism.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

MiphamFan
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Re: what the buddha didn't teach

Post by MiphamFan » Sat Apr 08, 2017 1:44 am

Wasn't the pre-Buddha idea of karma rather different?

Buddha was the first to describe karma in terms of intention rather than just action (in particular ritual action).

mikenz66
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Re: what the buddha didn't teach

Post by mikenz66 » Sat Apr 08, 2017 1:54 am

Johnny Dangerous wrote: There are different schools of thought, but even from a purely historical viewpoint, no one actually knows the limits of what Shakyamuni taught.


This is not a point of view you will find heavily represented on this particular site at any rate, being a site for Mahayana folk.

You might want to check the sister site http://www.dhammawheel.com and ask questions there, as well as peruse http://www.accesstoinsight.com and explore the Pali Suttas yourself.
If historical analysis of the Pali Suttas and the various Agamas preserved in Chinese, Sanskrit, etc are of interest, then also check out:
https://suttacentral.net/
And the associated discussion:
https://discourse.suttacentral.net/

HIstorical analysis is, of course, only one way of approaching Dharma...

:anjali:
Mike
Last edited by mikenz66 on Sat Apr 08, 2017 1:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Wayfarer
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Re: what the buddha didn't teach

Post by Wayfarer » Sat Apr 08, 2017 1:55 am

MiphamFan wrote:Wasn't the pre-Buddha idea of karma rather different?

Buddha was the first to describe karma in terms of intention rather than just action (in particular ritual action).
That's how I understand it too. But he was adapting an existing idea and giving it a unique meaning, rather than inventing it de novo. The Buddha did that a lot - another example was his re-definition of 'brahmin' in terms of character rather than hereditary title. A good book on that is What the Buddha Thought, Richard Gombrich.
Last edited by Wayfarer on Sat Apr 08, 2017 1:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
Only practice with no gaining idea ~ Suzuki Roshi

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