original buddhism

A forum for those wishing to discuss Buddhist history and teachings in the Western academic manner, referencing appropriate sources.
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liuzg150181
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Re: original buddhism

Post by liuzg150181 » Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:52 pm

Queequeg wrote:
liuzg150181 wrote:
Queequeg wrote: Sorry to interrupt. I have not been following along except the last page.

Is this a technical term?

The reason I ask is that Zhiyi identifies "Common Teaching" to refer to some forms of Mahayana that I suppose could be identified as a path of renunciation. He also identifies two other Mahayana teachings that do not involve renunciation. That's irrelevant to my question, though.
In contrast to uncommon Mahayana,a.k.a Vajrayana?
I should have been more clear - common, in the sense of 'shared'. Hinayana and Common Teaching Mahayana both seek resolution in the Absolute, ie. anatman and sunyata, respectively. Separate and Perfect Teaching Mahayana do not - the former having the ideal of the bodhisattva who never abandons beings and the latter finding spontaneous perfection in neither abandoning nor not abandoning, etc. The latter two are still Mahayanateachings, with the Perfect Path considered the Original Gate of Ekayana.
While there are much better practitioners(more experienced and knowledge) to answer the question,afaik by 'uncommon' it refers to the means and method to speed up the process to Buddhahood,otherwise the commonalities are bodhicitta shared with Mahayana and renounciation of samsara and refuge that are common to all 'vehicles' so to speak.

Also,for what I understand,Hinayana(mainly in modern form of Theravada) only strifes to achieve anatta,whereas Mahayana(both common and uncommon) strifes to also achieve sunyata in addition to anatta.

Tuybachau
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Re: original buddhism

Post by Tuybachau » Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:59 pm

Malcolm wrote: Relying on the definitive meaning in no way contradicts the path of renunciation which is clearly taught as the principle expedient means in Mahāyāna. To insist that it does means abandoning the relative in favor of the ultimate. Buddha taught two truths; the one of worldly convention, and the ultimate truth. These two truths are not in contradiction.
- The expedient are expedient as they are employed to lead sentient beings to the realization of the definitive teaching. Things are not expediently used when they are confused with the definitive. 
- Mahayana teaches the definitive meaning. Bodhisattvas who rely on the definitive meaning can use whatever expedient means they see fit: renunciation, appropriation, abandonment, attainment..
Malcolm wrote: Someone who does not understand that common Mahāyāna is a path of renunciation does not understand the meaning of the two truths.
- Mahayana is not a path of renunciation. Mahayana, the great vehicle, is the path of bodhisattvas who rely on the definitive teaching and employ various expedient means: renunciation, appropriation, abandonment, attainment.. to lead an infinite number of sentient beings to cessation.

Seeker12
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Re: original buddhism

Post by Seeker12 » Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:13 pm

Tuybachau wrote: Mahayana is not a path of renunciation. Mahayana, the great vehicle, is the path of bodhisattvas who rely on the definitive teaching and employ various expedient means: renunciation, appropriation, abandonment, attainment.. to lead an infinite number of sentient beings to cessation.
I think the problem here is that you're basically talking about the path of the Bodhisattvas on the Bhumis and Malcolm is talking about what he's calling 'common Mahayana', which is basically one vehicle that can lead to awakening among others. This categorization I think is often employed in the 9 yana framework, though that is probably not the only place it's employed.

IMO, on the Bhumis, Bodhisattvas employ all vehicles ultimately and realize all truths. As I recall, this is discussed somewhat with terms like integrated and unintegrated doctrines.

The discussion here seems to be almost purely semantic and centered around the term 'common Mahayana', which in my opinion does somewhat of a disservice to the Mahayana because the Mahayana explicitly discusses the Bhumis, and I think within the Bhumis, all of this other stuff is there.
Better than if there were thousands of meaningless words is
one meaningful word that on hearing brings peace. Dhp

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Malcolm
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Re: original buddhism

Post by Malcolm » Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:52 am

Tuybachau wrote:[

- The expedient are expedient as they are employed to lead sentient beings to the realization of the definitive teaching. Things are not expediently used when they are confused with the definitive. 
Expedient means are also used by bodhisattvas for their own training, for example, śilapāramita, the perfection of discipline which necessarily involves renunciation such as abandoning killing, stealing, lying, sexual misconduct and intoxication. A bodhisattva may engage in any of those five misdeeds for the benefit of others, but not for his or her own benefit. Therefore, the bodhisattva path is a renunciate path in general.
- Mahayana teaches the definitive meaning. Bodhisattvas who rely on the definitive meaning can use whatever expedient means they see fit: renunciation, appropriation, abandonment, attainment..
Mahāyāna indeed has both provisional teachings and definitive teachings. For example, the Avatamska teaches the definitive teachings on practicing the path, which involve renunciation, etc., included in the seven limbs.

For their own practice of the path, bodhisattvas are obliged to abandon the ten nonvirtuous deeds, eating meat and so on. Therefore, the bodhisattva path is a renunciate path in general.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Virgo
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Re: original buddhism

Post by Virgo » Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:10 am

Malcolm wrote: For their own practice of the path, bodhisattvas are obliged to abandon the ten nonvirtuous deeds, eating meat and so on. Therefore, the bodhisattva path is a renunciate path in general.
LOL, this person is still arguing with you?

Tuybachau, relax. You are wrong about this and that is OKAY... it's okay, man, just let it go.

Kevin
I may have made some mistakes, but I am just a person doing his best.
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Queequeg
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Re: original buddhism

Post by Queequeg » Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:23 am

He doesn't believe in renunciation?

Whakka whakka!
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Saddharmapundarikasutra, Upaya Chapter

Tuybachau
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Re: original buddhism

Post by Tuybachau » Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:11 pm

Malcolm wrote: Expedient means are also used by bodhisattvas for their own training, for example, śilapāramita, the perfection of discipline which necessarily involves renunciation such as abandoning killing, stealing, lying, sexual misconduct and intoxication. 

A bodhisattva may engage in any of those five misdeeds for the benefit of others, but not for his or her own benefit. Therefore, the bodhisattva path is a renunciate path in general.
- The monastic codes, vinaya, should not be confused with the definitive teaching on which the bodhisattvas rely. Bodhisattvas can choose to assume any role such as that of a fully ordained, a sramana, who keeps 250 precepts or an apprentice, a samanera, 10 precepts, or an upasaka 5, or someone like Devadata, or a prostitute. The path of a bodhisattva is not defined by one or more of the expedient means that bodhisattva employs but:

"
Wisdom is the bodhisattva's mother,
expedient means his father;
of those who guide and teach all beings,
there are none not born of these.
"
From Chapter 8 THE BUDDHA WAY of the Vimalakirti Sutra

Malcolm wrote: Mahāyāna indeed has both provisional teachings and definitive teachings. For example, the Avatamska teaches the definitive teachings on practicing the path, which involve renunciation, etc., included in the seven limbs.

For their own practice of the path, bodhisattvas are obliged to abandon the ten nonvirtuous deeds, eating meat and so on. Therefore, the bodhisattva path is a renunciate path in general.
- For his/her own practice of the path, a bodhisattva relies on the definitive teaching to employ one or more of the expedient means. In the definitive teaching:

"
Here, Sariputra, a Bodhisattva, a great being, having stood in the perfection of wisdom, by way of not taking his stand on it, should perfect the perfection of giving, by way of seeing that no renunciation has taken place, since gift, giver, and recipient have not been apprehended.  He should perfect himself in the perfection of morality, through not transgressing into either offence or non-offence.    He should perfect the perfection of patience and remain imperturbable.  He should perfect the perfection of vigour, and remain indefatigable in his physical and mental vigour.  He should perfect the perfection of meditation, and derive no enjoyment (from transic meditation).  He should perfect the perfection of wisdom, on account of the fact that he apprehends neither wisdom nor stupidity.
"
From Chapter 2 THE THOUGHT OF ENLIGHTENMENT of The Large Sutra on Perfect Wisdom

"
Subhuti : If, O Lord, form should be seen as empty of form, etc. to: enlightenment as empty of enlightenment, how can of a Bodhisattva who courses in perfect wisdom the coursing take place?
The Lord : A noncoursing is the bodhisattva’s coursing in perfect wisdom. 
Subhuti : For what reason? 
The Lord : Because no perfect wisdom can be apprehended, no Bodhisattva, no coursing, no one who courses, nor that whereby or wherein he courses.  It is thus that a Bodhisattva’s coursing in perfect wisdom is a noncoursing in which all these discoursings are not apprehended.
"
From Chapter 63 MANY QUESTIONS CONCERNING THE DUALITY OF DHARMAS of The Large Sutra on Perfect Wisdom


- As I said before, those who confuse worldly things with bodhisattvas' wisdom and practice do not know this path.

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Malcolm
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Re: original buddhism

Post by Malcolm » Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:27 pm

Tuybachau wrote:
Malcolm wrote: Expedient means are also used by bodhisattvas for their own training, for example, śilapāramita, the perfection of discipline which necessarily involves renunciation such as abandoning killing, stealing, lying, sexual misconduct and intoxication. 

A bodhisattva may engage in any of those five misdeeds for the benefit of others, but not for his or her own benefit. Therefore, the bodhisattva path is a renunciate path in general.
- The monastic codes, vinaya, should not be confused with the definitive teaching on which the bodhisattvas rely. Bodhisattvas can choose to assume any role such as that of a fully ordained, a sramana, who keeps 250 precepts or an apprentice, a samanera, 10 precepts, or an upasaka 5, or someone like Devadata, or a prostitute. The path of a bodhisattva is not defined by one or more of the expedient means that bodhisattva employs but:

"
Wisdom is the bodhisattva's mother,
expedient means his father;
of those who guide and teach all beings,
there are none not born of these.
"
From Chapter 8 THE BUDDHA WAY of the Vimalakirti Sutra

Malcolm wrote: Mahāyāna indeed has both provisional teachings and definitive teachings. For example, the Avatamska teaches the definitive teachings on practicing the path, which involve renunciation, etc., included in the seven limbs.

For their own practice of the path, bodhisattvas are obliged to abandon the ten nonvirtuous deeds, eating meat and so on. Therefore, the bodhisattva path is a renunciate path in general.
- For his/her own practice of the path, a bodhisattva relies on the definitive teaching to employ one or more of the expedient means. In the definitive teaching:

"
Here, Sariputra, a Bodhisattva, a great being, having stood in the perfection of wisdom, by way of not taking his stand on it, should perfect the perfection of giving, by way of seeing that no renunciation has taken place, since gift, giver, and recipient have not been apprehended.  He should perfect himself in the perfection of morality, through not transgressing into either offence or non-offence.    He should perfect the perfection of patience and remain imperturbable.  He should perfect the perfection of vigour, and remain indefatigable in his physical and mental vigour.  He should perfect the perfection of meditation, and derive no enjoyment (from transic meditation).  He should perfect the perfection of wisdom, on account of the fact that he apprehends neither wisdom nor stupidity.
"
From Chapter 2 THE THOUGHT OF ENLIGHTENMENT of The Large Sutra on Perfect Wisdom

"
Subhuti : If, O Lord, form should be seen as empty of form, etc. to: enlightenment as empty of enlightenment, how can of a Bodhisattva who courses in perfect wisdom the coursing take place?
The Lord : A noncoursing is the bodhisattva’s coursing in perfect wisdom. 
Subhuti : For what reason? 
The Lord : Because no perfect wisdom can be apprehended, no Bodhisattva, no coursing, no one who courses, nor that whereby or wherein he courses.  It is thus that a Bodhisattva’s coursing in perfect wisdom is a noncoursing in which all these discoursings are not apprehended.
"
From Chapter 63 MANY QUESTIONS CONCERNING THE DUALITY OF DHARMAS of The Large Sutra on Perfect Wisdom


- As I said before, those who confuse worldly things with bodhisattvas' wisdom and practice do not know this path.
And I as said before, those who do not understand that bodhisattvas rely on the two truths, and not just one, do not understand Mahāyāna. You keep on asserting there is no use for the relative things of the path for a bodhisattva themselves.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Nyedrag Yeshe
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Re: original buddhism

Post by Nyedrag Yeshe » Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:56 pm

There is a key point missing in some people's understanding of the different views on renunciation between different Yanas. Different from Vajrayana, common Mahayana simple lacks pure vision and divine pride. Without which, is just not possible to attain the path's fruition without inner or outer renunciation (Monkhood), or both!
“Whatever has to happen, let it happen!”
“Whatever the situation is, it’s fine!”
“I really don’t need anything!
~Tsangpa Gyare Yeshe Dorje (1161-1211)
ओं पद्मोष्णीष विमले हूँ फट । ओं हनुफशभरहृदय स्वाहा॥
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔ ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།

Tuybachau
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Re: original buddhism

Post by Tuybachau » Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:27 am

Malcolm wrote:
Tuybachau wrote:
Malcolm wrote: Expedient means are also used by bodhisattvas for their own training, for example, śilapāramita, the perfection of discipline which necessarily involves renunciation such as abandoning killing, stealing, lying, sexual misconduct and intoxication. 

A bodhisattva may engage in any of those five misdeeds for the benefit of others, but not for his or her own benefit. Therefore, the bodhisattva path is a renunciate path in general.
- The monastic codes, vinaya, should not be confused with the definitive teaching on which the bodhisattvas rely. Bodhisattvas can choose to assume any role such as that of a fully ordained, a sramana, who keeps 250 precepts or an apprentice, a samanera, 10 precepts, or an upasaka 5, or someone like Devadata, or a prostitute. The path of a bodhisattva is not defined by one or more of the expedient means that bodhisattva employs but:

"
Wisdom is the bodhisattva's mother,
expedient means his father;
of those who guide and teach all beings,
there are none not born of these.
"
From Chapter 8 THE BUDDHA WAY of the Vimalakirti Sutra

Malcolm wrote: Mahāyāna indeed has both provisional teachings and definitive teachings. For example, the Avatamska teaches the definitive teachings on practicing the path, which involve renunciation, etc., included in the seven limbs.

For their own practice of the path, bodhisattvas are obliged to abandon the ten nonvirtuous deeds, eating meat and so on. Therefore, the bodhisattva path is a renunciate path in general.
- For his/her own practice of the path, a bodhisattva relies on the definitive teaching to employ one or more of the expedient means. In the definitive teaching:

"
Here, Sariputra, a Bodhisattva, a great being, having stood in the perfection of wisdom, by way of not taking his stand on it, should perfect the perfection of giving, by way of seeing that no renunciation has taken place, since gift, giver, and recipient have not been apprehended.  He should perfect himself in the perfection of morality, through not transgressing into either offence or non-offence.    He should perfect the perfection of patience and remain imperturbable.  He should perfect the perfection of vigour, and remain indefatigable in his physical and mental vigour.  He should perfect the perfection of meditation, and derive no enjoyment (from transic meditation).  He should perfect the perfection of wisdom, on account of the fact that he apprehends neither wisdom nor stupidity.
"
From Chapter 2 THE THOUGHT OF ENLIGHTENMENT of The Large Sutra on Perfect Wisdom

"
Subhuti : If, O Lord, form should be seen as empty of form, etc. to: enlightenment as empty of enlightenment, how can of a Bodhisattva who courses in perfect wisdom the coursing take place?
The Lord : A noncoursing is the bodhisattva’s coursing in perfect wisdom. 
Subhuti : For what reason? 
The Lord : Because no perfect wisdom can be apprehended, no Bodhisattva, no coursing, no one who courses, nor that whereby or wherein he courses.  It is thus that a Bodhisattva’s coursing in perfect wisdom is a noncoursing in which all these discoursings are not apprehended.
"
From Chapter 63 MANY QUESTIONS CONCERNING THE DUALITY OF DHARMAS of The Large Sutra on Perfect Wisdom


- As I said before, those who confuse worldly things with bodhisattvas' wisdom and practice do not know this path.
And I as said before, those who do not understand that bodhisattvas rely on the two truths, and not just one, do not understand Mahāyāna. You keep on asserting there is no use for the relative things of the path for a bodhisattva themselves.

You keep on asserting that a bodhisattva's path is bounded by renunciation, one of his/her limitless expedient means. You refuse to learn the teaching of Mahayana that the path of bodhisattvas requires both wisdom and compassion, the definitive meaning to be relied on and the provisional meanings to be used as expedient means. 
One who aspires to the Mahayana path needs to understand that any relative thing can be the expression of a bodhisattva's wisdom and compassion and the fact that relative things always be there in the eyes of sentient beings.

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Re: original buddhism

Post by Anonymous X » Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:47 am

Nyedrag Yeshe wrote:There is a key point missing in some people's understanding of the different views on renunciation between different Yanas. Different from Vajrayana, common Mahayana simple lacks pure vision and divine pride. Without which, is just not possible to attain the path's fruition without inner or outer renunciation (Monkhood), or both!
I guess this must be another sectarian divide that resides in the mind of the poster. Some would say this is said from an elitist point of view. How can any point of view be truth?

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Malcolm
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Re: original buddhism

Post by Malcolm » Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:58 am

Tuybachau wrote:

You keep on asserting that a bodhisattva's path is bounded by renunciation...
The basis of the bodhisattva path is renunciation, which is obvious even to beginners, let alone scholars.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

Tuybachau
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Re: original buddhism

Post by Tuybachau » Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:17 am

Malcolm wrote: The basis of the bodhisattva path is renunciation, which is obvious even to beginners, let alone scholars.

The basis of the bodhisattva path is the Buddha Nature which has nothing to do with renunciation or/and appropriation... That is what the definitive teaching is about and why it is to be relied on.

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Coëmgenu
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Re: original buddhism

Post by Coëmgenu » Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:40 pm

Tuybachau wrote:
Malcolm wrote: The basis of the bodhisattva path is renunciation, which is obvious even to beginners, let alone scholars.

The basis of the bodhisattva path is the Buddha Nature which has nothing to do with renunciation or/and appropriation... That is what the definitive teaching is about and why it is to be relied on.
But bodhisattvayāna isn't the same thing as Buddha-nature, regardless of if it is "based" on it or not, yes? What matters is what bodhisattvayāna "is" (i.e. what is the practice of Bodhisattvayāna is), not what it is predicated on. What are the actual practices of Bodhisattvayāna? That is where you find out if it is or is not a path of renunciation, not from its theory or its metaphysics.

IMO obv.

As a point a few sects of Mahāyāna Buddhism do appear to be (almost?) completely belief/faith based. Do these outlier sects qualify as also being based in renunciation?
Last edited by Coëmgenu on Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
子念昔貧,志意下劣,今於父所,大獲珍寶,并及舍宅、一切財物。甚大歡喜,得未曾有。
The son thought of past poverty, outlook humble, now having from father a treasure harvest, also father's house, all his wealth. Great joy - to have what was never before had.

Τῆς πατρῴας, δόξης σου, ἀποσκιρτήσας ἀφρόνως, ἐν κακοῖς ἐσκόρπισα, ὅν μοι παρέδωκας πλοῦτον· ὅθεν σοι τὴν τοῦ Ἀσώτου, φωνὴν κραυγάζω· Ἥμαρτον ἐνώπιόν σου Πάτερ οἰκτίρμον, δέξαι με μετανοοῦντα, καὶ ποίησόν με, ὡς ἕνα τῶν μισθίων σου.
Your fatherly due I withheld unthinking, in evil I wasted your wealth; a prodigal cries, "I've erred, father, receive the repentant as serf."

妙法蓮華經 Κοντάκιον τοῦ Ἀσώτου

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Grigoris
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Re: original buddhism

Post by Grigoris » Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:52 pm

phpBB [video]
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Grigoris
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Re: original buddhism

Post by Grigoris » Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:54 pm

Though you may prefer the Frank Sinatra-Ginger Rogers version...

phpBB [video]
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

Tuybachau
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Re: original buddhism

Post by Tuybachau » Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:21 pm

Coëmgenu wrote: What are the actual practices of Bodhisattvayāna? That is where you find out if it is or is not a path of renunciation, not from its theory or its metaphysics.
- The sutras do not teach theories and metaphysics. Those who do not have adequate roots of goodness do not believe in and/or do not understand and/or do not follow them but come up with idle theories and metaphysics.
- If you aspire to the path of bodhisattvas, practice to rely on the definitive teaching. You have the Buddha nature, realize it.

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Coëmgenu
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Re: original buddhism

Post by Coëmgenu » Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:40 pm

Tuybachau wrote:
Coëmgenu wrote: What are the actual practices of Bodhisattvayāna? That is where you find out if it is or is not a path of renunciation, not from its theory or its metaphysics.
- The sutras do not teach theories and metaphysics.
Come again? How do they not do this?
子念昔貧,志意下劣,今於父所,大獲珍寶,并及舍宅、一切財物。甚大歡喜,得未曾有。
The son thought of past poverty, outlook humble, now having from father a treasure harvest, also father's house, all his wealth. Great joy - to have what was never before had.

Τῆς πατρῴας, δόξης σου, ἀποσκιρτήσας ἀφρόνως, ἐν κακοῖς ἐσκόρπισα, ὅν μοι παρέδωκας πλοῦτον· ὅθεν σοι τὴν τοῦ Ἀσώτου, φωνὴν κραυγάζω· Ἥμαρτον ἐνώπιόν σου Πάτερ οἰκτίρμον, δέξαι με μετανοοῦντα, καὶ ποίησόν με, ὡς ἕνα τῶν μισθίων σου.
Your fatherly due I withheld unthinking, in evil I wasted your wealth; a prodigal cries, "I've erred, father, receive the repentant as serf."

妙法蓮華經 Κοντάκιον τοῦ Ἀσώτου

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Coëmgenu
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Re: original buddhism

Post by Coëmgenu » Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:02 pm

Coëmgenu wrote:
Tuybachau wrote:
Coëmgenu wrote: What are the actual practices of Bodhisattvayāna? That is where you find out if it is or is not a path of renunciation, not from its theory or its metaphysics.
- The sutras do not teach theories and metaphysics.
Come again? How do they not do this?
I see. You have redefined my "theory" to your "theories" thinking they refer to the same usage of the word "theory".

Theory: a body of theorems presenting a concise systematic view of a subject.

This is the operative meaning intended by my usage of the singular rather than plural.

Similarly,

Metaphysics: the branch of philosophy that deals with the first principles of things, including abstract concepts such as being, knowing, substance, cause, identity, time, and space.
子念昔貧,志意下劣,今於父所,大獲珍寶,并及舍宅、一切財物。甚大歡喜,得未曾有。
The son thought of past poverty, outlook humble, now having from father a treasure harvest, also father's house, all his wealth. Great joy - to have what was never before had.

Τῆς πατρῴας, δόξης σου, ἀποσκιρτήσας ἀφρόνως, ἐν κακοῖς ἐσκόρπισα, ὅν μοι παρέδωκας πλοῦτον· ὅθεν σοι τὴν τοῦ Ἀσώτου, φωνὴν κραυγάζω· Ἥμαρτον ἐνώπιόν σου Πάτερ οἰκτίρμον, δέξαι με μετανοοῦντα, καὶ ποίησόν με, ὡς ἕνα τῶν μισθίων σου.
Your fatherly due I withheld unthinking, in evil I wasted your wealth; a prodigal cries, "I've erred, father, receive the repentant as serf."

妙法蓮華經 Κοντάκιον τοῦ Ἀσώτου

Tuybachau
Posts: 46
Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:32 am

Re: original buddhism

Post by Tuybachau » Fri Jul 21, 2017 2:26 am

Coëmgenu wrote: Come again? How do they not do this?

I see. You have redefined my "theory" to your "theories" thinking they refer to the same usage of the word "theory".

Theory: a body of theorems presenting a concise systematic view of a subject.

This is the operative meaning intended by my usage of the singular rather than plural.
- The sutras do not teach theorems and views but do teach non attachment to propositions and views.

Coëmgenu wrote: Similarly, 

Metaphysics: the branch of philosophy that deals with the first principles of things, including abstract concepts such as being, knowing, substance, cause, identity, time, and space.
- The sutras do not teach principles, concepts.. but do teach non establishment of and non attachment to principles, concepts..

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