False Memories and Questionable Buddhist Lore

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Leo Rivers
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False Memories and Questionable Buddhist Lore

Post by Leo Rivers » Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:01 pm

I have two memories of teachings by the Buddha and their import that I wish to confirm as I can't track them down and at 67 I may be misremembering badly. I would be very grateful for references to the accurate sources for my sloppy memory.

First is a teaching where he "says" "There have been Religions and Philosophies for thousands of years, yet human character and the consequences of human conduct remain unchanged. Therefore I say we must apply ourselves to our own salvation."

and

Second the teaching where he "says" "Examine the dharma as it accords with your reason and what you have been taught"
This quote is likely misunderstood. I read an essay some years ago in which it is explained the Buddha ISN'T advocating free thought once you have joined the Sangha, he is saying, until they are ready, let them progress as best they can. Lost essay. It was convincing.

:namaste:

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Malcolm
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Re: False Memories and Questionable Buddhist Lore

Post by Malcolm » Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:13 pm

Leo Rivers wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:01 pm


First is a teaching where he "says" "There have been Religions and Philosophies for thousands of years, yet human character and the consequences of human conduct remain unchanged. Therefore I say we must apply ourselves to our own salvation."
This seems to be mashup of a statement by bertrand russel about human knowledge vs. human wisdom.
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Tolya M
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Re: False Memories and Questionable Buddhist Lore

Post by Tolya M » Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:18 am

Leo Rivers wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:01 pm
I have two memories of teachings by the Buddha and their import that I wish to confirm as I can't track them down and at 67 I may be misremembering badly. I would be very grateful for references to the accurate sources for my sloppy memory.

First is a teaching where he "says" "There have been Religions and Philosophies for thousands of years, yet human character and the consequences of human conduct remain unchanged. Therefore I say we must apply ourselves to our own salvation."

and

Second the teaching where he "says" "Examine the dharma as it accords with your reason and what you have been taught"
This quote is likely misunderstood. I read an essay some years ago in which it is explained the Buddha ISN'T advocating free thought once you have joined the Sangha, he is saying, until they are ready, let them progress as best they can. Lost essay. It was convincing.

:namaste:
The first seems impossible because minds, bodies and worlds are in constant flux from brahma abodes to hells. If this is about samsaric mode in general then it is too uncertain for Buddha. Maybe it is partly from Sallatha sutta

The second statement is too short but maybe it's an incomplete piece of Kalama Sutta

Just my associations.

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Virgo
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Re: False Memories and Questionable Buddhist Lore

Post by Virgo » Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:35 am

Tolya M wrote:
Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:18 am
Leo Rivers wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:01 pm
I have two memories of teachings by the Buddha and their import that I wish to confirm as I can't track them down and at 67 I may be misremembering badly. I would be very grateful for references to the accurate sources for my sloppy memory.

First is a teaching where he "says" "There have been Religions and Philosophies for thousands of years, yet human character and the consequences of human conduct remain unchanged. Therefore I say we must apply ourselves to our own salvation."

and

Second the teaching where he "says" "Examine the dharma as it accords with your reason and what you have been taught"
This quote is likely misunderstood. I read an essay some years ago in which it is explained the Buddha ISN'T advocating free thought once you have joined the Sangha, he is saying, until they are ready, let them progress as best they can. Lost essay. It was convincing.

:namaste:
The first seems impossible because minds, bodies and worlds are in constant flux from brahma abodes to hells. If this is about samsaric mode in general then it is too uncertain for Buddha. Maybe it is partly from Sallatha sutta
Ha ha, we are always accepting and rejecting, accepting and rejecting.

Kevin

Tolya M
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Re: False Memories and Questionable Buddhist Lore

Post by Tolya M » Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:54 am

Virgo wrote:
Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:35 am


Ha ha, we are always accepting and rejecting, accepting and rejecting.

Kevin
It is a little more diffucult than it seems. One needs

1) sanskrit\tibetan terms with definition and with context

2) cetasikas analysis with respect to hetu,alambana etc to conclude about category of the citta

Then you can claim "Oh man, it is really an unskillful duality of lobha\pratigha etc...

In the case of your statement I do not understand what it is about. Can you elaborate it please? :mrgreen:


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jkarlins
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Re: False Memories and Questionable Buddhist Lore

Post by jkarlins » Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:43 pm

One questionable memory I have is of this- of the ten virtuous and nonvirtuous acts, ill will and wrong view are the worst.

This is off base, right? Thought I read it somewhere, tried to find it, and couldn't.

Jake

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Re: False Memories and Questionable Buddhist Lore

Post by Tolya M » Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:23 pm

jkarlins wrote:
Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:43 pm
One questionable memory I have is of this- of the ten virtuous and nonvirtuous acts, ill will and wrong view are the worst.

This is off base, right? Thought I read it somewhere, tried to find it, and couldn't.

Jake
Maybe it is about mind-actions. ill-will (vyapada), false views (mithya drsti) and avarice (abhidhya) are the only mind akusala actions )

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jkarlins
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Re: False Memories and Questionable Buddhist Lore

Post by jkarlins » Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:38 pm

Ok, sounds fair. But that setup, just those two together, ill will and wrong view, that doesn't have any real scriptural basis does it?

Jake

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Re: False Memories and Questionable Buddhist Lore

Post by Tolya M » Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:38 am

I don't know the exact text but through reasoning it may be known that one can't take birth in lower realms with avarice alone. It must be combined with false views etc. to become abhi- high, big or exessive.

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jkarlins
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Re: False Memories and Questionable Buddhist Lore

Post by jkarlins » Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:29 pm

All right, thanks.

Jake

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Leo Rivers
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Re: False Memories and Questionable Buddhist Lore

Post by Leo Rivers » Sat Nov 25, 2017 1:04 am

I'm glad I asked! :popcorn:

BR would be tickled

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