Karmic accrual and Momentariness

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Wayfarer
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Re: Karmic accrual and Momentariness

Post by Wayfarer » Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:34 am

When I did my only Goenka retreat 10 years ago, I was interested that one of the evening dhamma talks was on kalapas, which were said to be of momentary but definite duration - a minute duration to be sure, but a definite quantum was given in the talk. This was said by Goenka to exemplify the way in which the Buddha had anticipated the findings of modern quantum physics. I’ve never heard the term ‘kalapa’ since then but it is a Buddhist term for ‘momentary dhamma’.
Only practice with no gaining idea ~ Suzuki Roshi

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Aryjna
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Re: Karmic accrual and Momentariness

Post by Aryjna » Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:37 pm

Virgo wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:03 pm
Aryjna wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:11 am
There are different views depending on the vehicle in question. In Hinayana maybe both the existence of infinitesimal particles and of infinitesimal moments is accepted, that does not mean that they actually exist other than as a convention, or that they make any sense when confronted with logical arguments.
In Theravada these are accepted to exist and exist as ultimately real, not as conventions, but in Mahayana we know that not to be the case.

Kevin
I am not saying that Hinayanists consider it to be a convention, but that even though they consider it real it is not real.

There is a good explanation of why the infinitesimal moment doesn't make sense in Patrul Rinpoche's commentary on the Bodhicaryavatara.

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Re: Karmic accrual and Momentariness

Post by Virgo » Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:30 pm

Stefos wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:30 am

Whoaahh........The thread just got deeper.

Kevin, I notice you have a Dzogchen symbol as your Avatar picture.........Are you a Dzogchenpa?
I am a Dzogchen practitioner.

Kevin
ངོ་རང་ཐོག་ཏུ་སྤྲད། །
ཐག་གཅིག་ཐོག་ཏུ་བཅད། །
གདེང་གྲོལ་ཐོག་ཏུ་བཅའ། །


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Re: Karmic accrual and Momentariness

Post by PuerAzaelis » Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:38 pm

Dhammanando wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:35 am
Stefos wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:30 am
Is there any book in publication which acknowledges what I bring up here comparatively? :anjali:
Of those approaching the topic from an academic perspective I believe the most recent is:

Alexander von Rospatt, The Buddhist Doctrine of Momentariness - A Survey of the Origins and Early Phase of this Doctrine up to Vasubandhu (Franz Steiner Verlag, Stuttgart, 1995)
TY Bhante.

https://ahandfulofleaves.files.wordpres ... ospatt.pdf
Generally, enjoyment of speech is the gateway to poor [results]. So it becomes the foundation for generating all negative emotional states. Jampel Pawo, The Certainty of the Diamond Mind

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Re: Karmic accrual and Momentariness

Post by Fortyeightvows » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:42 pm

Dhammanando wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:35 am
Stefos wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:30 am
Is there any book in publication which acknowledges what I bring up here comparatively? :anjali:
Of those approaching the topic from an academic perspective I believe the most recent is:

Alexander von Rospatt, The Buddhist Doctrine of Momentariness - A Survey of the Origins and Early Phase of this Doctrine up to Vasubandhu (Franz Steiner Verlag, Stuttgart, 1995)
This book will surely include a lengthy study of what I had mentioned here:
Fortyeightvows wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:04 am
in mahayana it is usually given as 1/65th of a finger snap.

My posts in thread have some citations:
viewtopic.php?f=77&t=20792&hilit=traditional

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Stefos
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Re: Karmic accrual and Momentariness

Post by Stefos » Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:10 am

Dhammanando wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:35 am
Stefos wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:30 am
Is there any book in publication which acknowledges what I bring up here comparatively? :anjali:
Of those approaching the topic from an academic perspective I believe the most recent is:

Alexander von Rospatt, The Buddhist Doctrine of Momentariness - A Survey of the Origins and Early Phase of this Doctrine up to Vasubandhu (Franz Steiner Verlag, Stuttgart, 1995)
Thank you sir HOWEVER this book is out of print

Please kindly direct me to a downloadable edition which is legal to download OR a place to buy this
:anjali:

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Stefos
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Re: Karmic accrual and Momentariness

Post by Stefos » Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:12 am

Virgo wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:30 pm
Stefos wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:30 am

Whoaahh........The thread just got deeper.

Kevin, I notice you have a Dzogchen symbol as your Avatar picture.........Are you a Dzogchenpa?
I am a Dzogchen practitioner.

Kevin
Yes my friend..........Oral, Symbolic and Direct transmissions....I have received them also.

Deeeep pranams :anjali:
Stefos

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Virgo
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Re: Karmic accrual and Momentariness

Post by Virgo » Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:40 am

Stefos wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:12 am
Virgo wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:30 pm
Stefos wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:30 am

Whoaahh........The thread just got deeper.

Kevin, I notice you have a Dzogchen symbol as your Avatar picture.........Are you a Dzogchenpa?
I am a Dzogchen practitioner.

Kevin
Yes my friend..........Oral, Symbolic and Direct transmissions....I have received them also.

Deeeep pranams :anjali:
Stefos
Wonderful. :namaste:

Kevin
ངོ་རང་ཐོག་ཏུ་སྤྲད། །
ཐག་གཅིག་ཐོག་ཏུ་བཅད། །
གདེང་གྲོལ་ཐོག་ཏུ་བཅའ། །


http://caretoclick.com/clean-the-enviro ... -phone-use

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Dhammanando
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Re: Karmic accrual and Momentariness

Post by Dhammanando » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:19 pm

Stefos wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:10 am
Thank you sir HOWEVER this book is out of print

Please kindly direct me to a downloadable edition which is legal to download OR a place to buy this
:anjali:
Sorry to hear that it's out of print. Abebooks don't have any used copies and the online ones will most likely be in breach of copyright. Perhaps you could get your library to order it for you.

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PuerAzaelis
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Re: Karmic accrual and Momentariness

Post by PuerAzaelis » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:57 pm

Stefos wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:10 am
Thank you sir HOWEVER this book is out of print

Please kindly direct me to a downloadable edition which is legal to download OR a place to buy this
:anjali:
Generally, enjoyment of speech is the gateway to poor [results]. So it becomes the foundation for generating all negative emotional states. Jampel Pawo, The Certainty of the Diamond Mind

For posts from this user, see Karma Dondrup Tashi account.

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Stefos
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Re: Karmic accrual and Momentariness

Post by Stefos » Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:07 am

Well,

The aforementioned book has SURELY made the subject a LOT more complicated.

Hmmmmm..........

Not sure what Lord Buddha Shakyamuni taught.........Not sure anyone will definitively ever find out either.

It seems that both the Pali texts and Mahasamghika texts are later extrapolations of what LBS taught as I suspected.

This makes the matter of "momentariness" that much more complicated.

I know experientially that thoughts and emotions can be momentary however the only way I can explain memory of a past event, however vague,
is by saying the brain records it however I have had extrasensory perceptions as well........Ex. seeing bands of color near a lady's left hand side ribcage!!!!!!!!!

Not so easy to attribute to Brain neuroplasticity or neurophysiology or the "misfiring of neurons in the brain!" LOL

Sarva Mangalam,
Stefos

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