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Subjective experience at odds with deep seated belief in materialism

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:50 pm
by daibunny
I am currently at a point in my practice where deep seated beliefs in scientific materialism are, i feel, holding back my practice. This is a recurring problem over the past few years that seems to resolve itself and then recur.

My experience of the path and practice validates the path and what i have read and been taught about Buddhism, yet there is a gnawing sense that, "Oh this cant be real" or "you are just creating this your self".

Now i realize that this is just more extraneous mental activity of highly dubious motivation and intent and that this type of thinking actually does have its place and is not separate from the rest of the causal nexus.

However, my task in practice is to a pay attention to the real as its happening, but it seems that this materialist mental construction is going to require some sort of special attention to lay to rest.

Any ideas?

Re: Subjective experience at odds with deep seated belief in materialism

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:58 am
by KeithA
daibunny wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:50 pm
I am currently at a point in my practice where deep seated beliefs in scientific materialism are, i feel, holding back my practice. This is a recurring problem over the past few years that seems to resolve itself and then recur.

My experience of the path and practice validates the path and what i have read and been taught about Buddhism, yet there is a gnawing sense that, "Oh this cant be real" or "you are just creating this your self".

Now i realize that this is just more extraneous mental activity of highly dubious motivation and intent and that this type of thinking actually does have its place and is not separate from the rest of the causal nexus.

However, my task in practice is to a pay attention to the real as its happening, but it seems that this materialist mental construction is going to require some sort of special attention to lay to rest.

Any ideas?
In my experience, just noticing something is usually enough. It will eventually resolve itself completely, if we are patient, persistent and kind to ourselves. No special attention needed, although some issues take longer than others, depending on our karmic fruits. Keep noticing and be the observer, not the judge. :buddha1:

That's my two cents, anyway

Re: Subjective experience at odds with deep seated belief in materialism

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:11 am
by SunWuKong
Minimally, you don't absolutely need a different frame of mind. But it could be that it's being challenged by your experience. It depends on what the nature of the subjective experience is. I've had a few unusual subjective experiences that I once held very highly, only later to question them.

Re: Subjective experience at odds with deep seated belief in materialism

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:23 am
by odysseus
Please define materialism? Does it mean we are made of stone? No room for intelligence or just rock dead?

Re: Subjective experience at odds with deep seated belief in materialism

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:01 am
by Johnny Dangerous
daibunny wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:50 pm
I am currently at a point in my practice where deep seated beliefs in scientific materialism are, i feel, holding back my practice. This is a recurring problem over the past few years that seems to resolve itself and then recur.

My experience of the path and practice validates the path and what i have read and been taught about Buddhism, yet there is a gnawing sense that, "Oh this cant be real" or "you are just creating this your self".

Now i realize that this is just more extraneous mental activity of highly dubious motivation and intent and that this type of thinking actually does have its place and is not separate from the rest of the causal nexus.

However, my task in practice is to a pay attention to the real as its happening, but it seems that this materialist mental construction is going to require some sort of special attention to lay to rest.

Any ideas?
Hmmmm examine how fragile and precarious systems of belief are. Zen has the advantage of emphasis on direct experiencing of reality - which has nothing to do with conceptual schema. That said, if you feel your conditioning is getting in the way of direct experience....perhaps it's time to cultivate a more expansive view a bit with some study. If you want to stay marginally in tradition, the Lankavatara offers some nice refutation of materialist etc. Views.

Re: Subjective experience at odds with deep seated belief in materialism

Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 1:52 am
by daibunny
Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:01 am
daibunny wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:50 pm
I am currently at a point in my practice where deep seated beliefs in scientific materialism are, i feel, holding back my practice. This is a recurring problem over the past few years that seems to resolve itself and then recur.

My experience of the path and practice validates the path and what i have read and been taught about Buddhism, yet there is a gnawing sense that, "Oh this cant be real" or "you are just creating this your self".

Now i realize that this is just more extraneous mental activity of highly dubious motivation and intent and that this type of thinking actually does have its place and is not separate from the rest of the causal nexus.

However, my task in practice is to a pay attention to the real as its happening, but it seems that this materialist mental construction is going to require some sort of special attention to lay to rest.

Any ideas?
Hmmmm examine how fragile and precarious systems of belief are. Zen has the advantage of emphasis on direct experiencing of reality - which has nothing to do with conceptual schema. That said, if you feel your conditioning is getting in the way of direct experience....perhaps it's time to cultivate a more expansive view a bit with some study. If you want to stay marginally in tradition, the Lankavatara offers some nice refutation of materialist etc. Views.

Thats a good suggestion, something inspirational, that is, and the lanka i think would be the perfect thing. I have spent some time with it before and was impressed.