Hyongak Sunim fed up with Korean Seon

Post Reply
kimjihoon5924
Posts: 24
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:44 pm

Hyongak Sunim fed up with Korean Seon

Post by kimjihoon5924 » Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:35 am

http://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_ ... 55201.html
I think Venerable Hyongak made a very good decision. Korean Buddhism is falling into corruption, political fights in the Jogye Order (Largest Zen (Seon) order in South Korea. Majority of Korean Buddhists I've met were just praying to Avalokiteshvara (Gwanseeumbosal) and Amitabha (Amitabul) for wealth, longevity and good luck and are not interested at all in enlightenment (Seongbul). Korean Buddhist population has fallen from 22& to 15.5& over the course of 10 years while Protestantism and Catholicism grew, now Korea's largest religion is Christianity, with Buddhism projected to decline even further. The Head abbot of Jogye Seon order has many controversies including corruption, drinking etc. Korean Buddhism needs to find a way back to its pure form.

ItsRaining
Posts: 221
Joined: Fri May 12, 2017 7:45 am

Re: Hyongak Sunim fed up with Korean Seon

Post by ItsRaining » Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:22 am

kimjihoon5924 wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:35 am
http://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_ ... 55201.html
I think Venerable Hyongak made a very good decision. Korean Buddhism is falling into corruption, political fights in the Jogye Order (Largest Zen (Seon) order in South Korea. Majority of Korean Buddhists I've met were just praying to Avalokiteshvara (Gwanseeumbosal) and Amitabha (Amitabul) for wealth, longevity and good luck and are not interested at all in enlightenment (Seongbul). Korean Buddhist population has fallen from 22& to 15.5& over the course of 10 years while Protestantism and Catholicism grew, now Korea's largest religion is Christianity, with Buddhism projected to decline even further. The Head abbot of Jogye Seon order has many controversies including corruption, drinking etc. Korean Buddhism needs to find a way back to its pure form.
Most Buddhists in history would have just been praying to Buddhas and Bodhisattvas and not trying to reach enlightenment.

kimjihoon5924
Posts: 24
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:44 pm

Re: Hyongak Sunim fed up with Korean Seon

Post by kimjihoon5924 » Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:23 am

ItsRaining wrote:Most Buddhists in history would have just been praying to Buddhas and Bodhisattvas and not trying to reach enlightenment.
Yes I am aware, but even praying to Amitabha is a way to reach enlightenment Sukhavati,
Last edited by Ayu on Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Fixed quote.

MiphamFan
Posts: 910
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 5:46 am

Re: Hyongak Sunim fed up with Korean Seon

Post by MiphamFan » Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:28 am

The problem is less with the laity, who throughout history and regardless of religion, have never been that interested in their own religions in general.

The problem is with those who are supposed to be teachers being hypocritical and destroying the image of the teachings to outsiders.

Matylda
Posts: 599
Joined: Mon May 14, 2012 3:32 pm

Re: Hyongak Sunim fed up with Korean Seon

Post by Matylda » Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:42 am

kimjihoon5924 wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:35 am
http://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_ ... 55201.html
I think Venerable Hyongak made a very good decision. Korean Buddhism is falling into corruption, political fights in the Jogye Order (Largest Zen (Seon) order in South Korea. Majority of Korean Buddhists I've met were just praying to Avalokiteshvara (Gwanseeumbosal) and Amitabha (Amitabul) for wealth, longevity and good luck and are not interested at all in enlightenment (Seongbul). Korean Buddhist population has fallen from 22& to 15.5& over the course of 10 years while Protestantism and Catholicism grew, now Korea's largest religion is Christianity, with Buddhism projected to decline even further. The Head abbot of Jogye Seon order has many controversies including corruption, drinking etc. Korean Buddhism needs to find a way back to its pure form.
Well i is not only problem of Krean buddhism. One may find it all over all buddhist traditions including theravada etc. one has to be more realistic about such things.

shaunc
Posts: 668
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:10 am

Re: Hyongak Sunim fed up with Korean Seon

Post by shaunc » Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:56 am

I think that you'll find that the problem with all institutions including religion is people, more accurately, greedy people that are more interested in power and prestige than practicing their religion and upholding the spirit of the ideology.
There's been many threads on here about different teachers from all types of sects and traditions behaving badly. Unfortunately monks, nuns and priests are fallible human beings too.

Matylda
Posts: 599
Joined: Mon May 14, 2012 3:32 pm

Re: Hyongak Sunim fed up with Korean Seon

Post by Matylda » Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:12 pm

shaunc wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:56 am
I think that you'll find that the problem with all institutions including religion is people, more accurately, greedy people that are more interested in power and prestige than practicing their religion and upholding the spirit of the ideology.
There's been many threads on here about different teachers from all types of sects and traditions behaving badly. Unfortunately monks, nuns and priests are fallible human beings too.
in fact this problem is as old as buddhism itself is.. it is enough to read vinaya texts, to have a little glimpse. Moreover what often happens to Westerners in Asia is their initial imagination about buddhism or Asia which hits hard reality of eveday life in monasteries... Asians are not so much stained by monotheism and strict thinking in terms of good and bad about human nature, failure etc.

However it does not mean accepting, rather less imagination. Idealistic Asians are rare, and those who imagine buddhism in unrealistic terms are mostly people with some neurotic problems and anger. Sorry to say so openly about it. Majority grew up with buddhism as it is, no illusions or unrealistic expectations. They are critical of course, but in a different way.. Same problems happened during times of Buddha. But anyone has freedom of choice. If some are fed up with Korean or any pother zen, what are they going to do next? Who cares after all about condition of buddhism? Real practitioners care about if they can find a proper teacher, and then they should simply follow instructions and put effort in their own practice. Corruption is as old as humanity is, to care about corrupted minds of others is waste of time and waste of rare opportunity to practice dharma.. death is always close, what for to engage in petty matters???

So I wnoder what one has learned after 25 y of practice? conclusion is not very nice..

User avatar
yan kong
Posts: 268
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:01 am

Re: Hyongak Sunim fed up with Korean Seon

Post by yan kong » Sun Apr 01, 2018 5:59 pm

Matylda wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:12 pm
shaunc wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:56 am
I think that you'll find that the problem with all institutions including religion is people, more accurately, greedy people that are more interested in power and prestige than practicing their religion and upholding the spirit of the ideology.
There's been many threads on here about different teachers from all types of sects and traditions behaving badly. Unfortunately monks, nuns and priests are fallible human beings too.
in fact this problem is as old as buddhism itself is.. it is enough to read vinaya texts, to have a little glimpse. Moreover what often happens to Westerners in Asia is their initial imagination about buddhism or Asia which hits hard reality of eveday life in monasteries... Asians are not so much stained by monotheism and strict thinking in terms of good and bad about human nature, failure etc.

However it does not mean accepting, rather less imagination. Idealistic Asians are rare, and those who imagine buddhism in unrealistic terms are mostly people with some neurotic problems and anger. Sorry to say so openly about it. Majority grew up with buddhism as it is, no illusions or unrealistic expectations. They are critical of course, but in a different way.. Same problems happened during times of Buddha. But anyone has freedom of choice. If some are fed up with Korean or any pother zen, what are they going to do next? Who cares after all about condition of buddhism? Real practitioners care about if they can find a proper teacher, and then they should simply follow instructions and put effort in their own practice. Corruption is as old as humanity is, to care about corrupted minds of others is waste of time and waste of rare opportunity to practice dharma.. death is always close, what for to engage in petty matters???

So I wnoder what one has learned after 25 y of practice? conclusion is not very nice..
He had a teacher he had faith in, he has faith in the Buddha Dharma and in Zen. He frustrated with the institution, which due to corruption at the top can be frustrating for everyone.
"Meditation is a spiritual exercise, not a therapeutic regime... Our intention is to enter Nirvana, not to make life in Samsara more tolerable." Chan Master Hsu Yun

User avatar
kirtu
Former staff member
Posts: 5850
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:29 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD

Re: Hyongak Sunim fed up with Korean Seon

Post by kirtu » Sun Apr 01, 2018 6:50 pm

This is a sad situation. Hyongak Sunim is himself a jewel. As such I hope that he can marshall the energy of bodhisattvic revival and create a positive change. In a sense this is the entire history of Korean Zen.

The entire world needs strong mahasiddhi (powerful Bodhisattva Sage) activity. The liturgy of Korean Zen clearly echos this possibility (for example with the chant to rescue all beings from the hells).

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

User avatar
Nicholas Weeks
Posts: 3093
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 4:21 am
Location: California

Re: Hyongak Sunim fed up with Korean Seon

Post by Nicholas Weeks » Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:10 pm

Whether the Dhamma or Dharma it has always been 'against the stream' of conventional living.

But the sangha will not always be with us publicly. There is such an era as a 'Dharma-ending' age and now is that time.
Manjushri is the hallowed Dharma, the ruler of the Dharma, the shining one, the superb illuminator of the world;
He is the powerful lord of Dharma, the king of the Dharma, the one who shows the most excellent pathway of mind. Manjushri-namasamgiti

User avatar
yan kong
Posts: 268
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:01 am

Re: Hyongak Sunim fed up with Korean Seon

Post by yan kong » Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:18 pm

kirtu wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 6:50 pm
This is a sad situation. Hyongak Sunim is himself a jewel. As such I hope that he can marshall the energy of bodhisattvic revival and create a positive change.
Is true, it is unfortunate for Korea that he departs. I wonder where he will go and if he plans to remain ordained.
"Meditation is a spiritual exercise, not a therapeutic regime... Our intention is to enter Nirvana, not to make life in Samsara more tolerable." Chan Master Hsu Yun

Matylda
Posts: 599
Joined: Mon May 14, 2012 3:32 pm

Re: Hyongak Sunim fed up with Korean Seon

Post by Matylda » Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:43 pm

kimjihoon5924 wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:35 am
http://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_ ... 55201.html
I think Venerable Hyongak made a very good decision. Korean Buddhism is falling into corruption, political fights in the Jogye Order (Largest Zen (Seon) order in South Korea. Majority of Korean Buddhists I've met were just praying to Avalokiteshvara (Gwanseeumbosal) and Amitabha (Amitabul) for wealth, longevity and good luck and are not interested at all in enlightenment (Seongbul). Korean Buddhist population has fallen from 22& to 15.5& over the course of 10 years while Protestantism and Catholicism grew, now Korea's largest religion is Christianity, with Buddhism projected to decline even further. The Head abbot of Jogye Seon order has many controversies including corruption, drinking etc. Korean Buddhism needs to find a way back to its pure form.
Exactly the same situation one may find in every Buddhist country. And it was for ages, nothing new. I do not make any critical judgment of his decision, however maybe it would be better for him to stay in Korea and teach according to good standards.

Actually corruption started even in Shkamuni times, and the evidence is clear, it is enough to pick up vinaya texts... some are very excited about vinaya, but basically it is all about human failure. If it was the case over 2500 years ago, why could we expect any improvment in the XXi century? It would be very naive.

User avatar
KeithA
Posts: 137
Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 11:02 pm

Re: Hyongak Sunim fed up with Korean Seon

Post by KeithA » Mon Apr 02, 2018 12:25 am

This is old news. He still practices and teaches, in Germany if I remember correctly.

User avatar
kirtu
Former staff member
Posts: 5850
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:29 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD

Re: Hyongak Sunim fed up with Korean Seon

Post by kirtu » Mon Apr 02, 2018 3:26 am

KeithA wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 12:25 am
This is old news. He still practices and teaches, in Germany if I remember correctly.
In downtown Regensburg, in the Fränkische Alb (mountains , rolling hills leading up to the Czech border).

One of the most enchanting places on Earth ....

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

Miroku
Posts: 526
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:18 am

Re: Hyongak Sunim fed up with Korean Seon

Post by Miroku » Mon Apr 02, 2018 1:53 pm

kirtu wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 3:26 am
KeithA wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 12:25 am
This is old news. He still practices and teaches, in Germany if I remember correctly.
In downtown Regensburg, in the Fränkische Alb (mountains , rolling hills leading up to the Czech border).

One of the most enchanting places on Earth ....

Kirt
It is even better when you cross the borders to the Czech side.

:oops: Sorry just my inner patriot showed.

Glad to hear he is teaching so close. He seems like a person of strong morals, something very needed in a teacher.
Child, if you are not hypocritical and out of control, that is conduct.
~ Padampa Sangye

You say such clever things to people, but you do not apply them to yourself.
The faults within you are the ones to be exposed.
~ Padampa Sangye

User avatar
kirtu
Former staff member
Posts: 5850
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:29 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD

Re: Hyongak Sunim fed up with Korean Seon

Post by kirtu » Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:44 am

Miroku wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 1:53 pm
kirtu wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 3:26 am
KeithA wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 12:25 am
This is old news. He still practices and teaches, in Germany if I remember correctly.
In downtown Regensburg, in the Fränkische Alb (mountains , rolling hills leading up to the Czech border).

One of the most enchanting places on Earth ....

Kirt
It is even better when you cross the borders to the Czech side.
So I've heard. But in the old days I couldn't get over there. One day I was in Bayreuth and met a German youth hiking group (4 people). They were going to the Czech border. Naively I drove them most of the way there but 1km from the border suddenly came across a huge sign with these words (this picture is of a much smaller sign). I had know this sign was there but seeing it for the first time was a bit shocking.

Image

Glad to hear he is teaching so close. He seems like a person of strong morals, something very needed in a teacher.
:thumbsup:

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

Post Reply

Return to “Seon”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests