Yunmen Wenyan

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bokki
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Yunmen Wenyan

Post by bokki » Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:49 pm

I hope this is the right place for my question.
Yunmen is , was, will, be..one of the most important moments in chan/zen history...
Why are his words not used, explained, understood, and so on..
Would you please say, if you will, something about him, or anything you would about Yunmen?
Thank You
bokki

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KeithA
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Re: Yunmen Wenyan

Post by KeithA » Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:00 am

Everyday is a good day!
Hi Bokki. :smile:
You make, you get.

New Haven Zen Center

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Astus
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Re: Yunmen Wenyan

Post by Astus » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:01 pm

pokii wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:49 pm
Yunmen is , was, will, be..one of the most important moments in chan/zen history...
How so?
Why are his words not used, explained, understood, and so on..
Shenxiu and Shenhui were verifiably important historical teachers, however, their teachings were abandoned and forgotten almost completely in a few hundred years.

"in the course of the future there will be monks who won't listen when discourses that are words of the Tathagata — deep, deep in their meaning, transcendent, connected with emptiness — are being recited. They won't lend ear, won't set their hearts on knowing them, won't regard these teachings as worth grasping or mastering. But they will listen when discourses that are literary works — the works of poets, elegant in sound, elegant in rhetoric, the work of outsiders, words of disciples — are recited. They will lend ear and set their hearts on knowing them. They will regard these teachings as worth grasping & mastering."
(Ani Sutta)
Would you please say, if you will, something about him, or anything you would about Yunmen?
If one examines this thoroughly, it’s stone-dead.
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"

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Meido
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Re: Yunmen Wenyan

Post by Meido » Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:03 pm

pokii wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:49 pm
Why are his words not used, explained, understood, and so on..
Wondering why you say this?

To start, Ummon features in 20-something koan in Hekiganroku and Mumonkan alone, meaning that in Rinzai practice at least his words and their function are rather intimately examined.

~ Meido
Even though you have attained insight into the True Nature (kensho), there is yet the barrier of differentiation, and there is the One Path of Advanced Practice. If you have not yet even seen into the True Nature, what a lot there is yet to do! - Torei

The Rinzai Zen Way: A Guide to Practice
Korinji Rinzai Zen Monastery [臨済宗 • 祖的山光林禅寺] - http://www.korinji.org
Madison, WI Rinzai Zen Community [機山龍源寺] - http://www.madisonrinzaizen.org
The Rinzai Zen Community - http://www.rinzaizen.org

Matylda
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Re: Yunmen Wenyan

Post by Matylda » Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:46 am

Meido wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:03 pm
pokii wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:49 pm
Why are his words not used, explained, understood, and so on..
Wondering why you say this?

To start, Ummon features in 20-something koan in Hekiganroku and Mumonkan alone, meaning that in Rinzai practice at least his words and their function are rather intimately examined.

~ Meido
In opus magnum of soto zen - Shobogenzo - Unmon is mentioned in many places as well.

zengarten
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Re: Yunmen Wenyan

Post by zengarten » Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:01 pm

Zen Master Yunmen: His Life and Essential Sayings, translated by Urs App, is said to re-appear at Shambala in May 2018. It's a great read. Yunmen is more than the Ummon we know from the koan collections, he is a giant.

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