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Yunmen Wenyan

Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:49 pm
by bokki
I hope this is the right place for my question.
Yunmen is , was, will, be..one of the most important moments in chan/zen history...
Why are his words not used, explained, understood, and so on..
Would you please say, if you will, something about him, or anything you would about Yunmen?
Thank You
bokki

Re: Yunmen Wenyan

Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:00 am
by KeithA
Everyday is a good day!
Hi Bokki. :smile:

Re: Yunmen Wenyan

Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:01 pm
by Astus
pokii wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:49 pmYunmen is , was, will, be..one of the most important moments in chan/zen history...
How so?
Why are his words not used, explained, understood, and so on..
Shenxiu and Shenhui were verifiably important historical teachers, however, their teachings were abandoned and forgotten almost completely in a few hundred years.

"in the course of the future there will be monks who won't listen when discourses that are words of the Tathagata — deep, deep in their meaning, transcendent, connected with emptiness — are being recited. They won't lend ear, won't set their hearts on knowing them, won't regard these teachings as worth grasping or mastering. But they will listen when discourses that are literary works — the works of poets, elegant in sound, elegant in rhetoric, the work of outsiders, words of disciples — are recited. They will lend ear and set their hearts on knowing them. They will regard these teachings as worth grasping & mastering."
(Ani Sutta)
Would you please say, if you will, something about him, or anything you would about Yunmen?
If one examines this thoroughly, it’s stone-dead.

Re: Yunmen Wenyan

Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:03 pm
by Meido
pokii wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:49 pm Why are his words not used, explained, understood, and so on..
Wondering why you say this?

To start, Ummon features in 20-something koan in Hekiganroku and Mumonkan alone, meaning that in Rinzai practice at least his words and their function are rather intimately examined.

~ Meido

Re: Yunmen Wenyan

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:46 am
by Matylda
Meido wrote: Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:03 pm
pokii wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:49 pm Why are his words not used, explained, understood, and so on..
Wondering why you say this?

To start, Ummon features in 20-something koan in Hekiganroku and Mumonkan alone, meaning that in Rinzai practice at least his words and their function are rather intimately examined.

~ Meido
In opus magnum of soto zen - Shobogenzo - Unmon is mentioned in many places as well.

Re: Yunmen Wenyan

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:01 pm
by zengarten
Zen Master Yunmen: His Life and Essential Sayings, translated by Urs App, is said to re-appear at Shambala in May 2018. It's a great read. Yunmen is more than the Ummon we know from the koan collections, he is a giant.