Great Vegan Debate

A place to discuss health and fitness, including healthy diets, etc.
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Mantrik
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Re: Great Vegan Debate

Post by Mantrik » Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:42 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:09 pm
Nemo wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:13 am
The month of Saga Dawa has started. Peaking on the next full moon. What a wonderful time to be vegetarian for a few days. Even not preparing meat in the house till the full moon. Anything helps.
I was in Vietnam a couple of weeks ago for the United Nations Vesak Day conference. They had the most incredible buffet of vegan and vegetarian food I have ever seen in my life for the participants.

After the conference I stayed a few more days in Hanoi to see the city. It is full of vegan restaurants for the Mahayana crowd.

I ate some incredible food.

Even the standard restaurants all had vegetarian and vegan versions of their dishes.

It is stupid to say that this or that particular diet is inherently healthy or unhealthy. It depends on so many factors: how you eat, what you eat, when you eat it, what you combine it with, your activity levels, certain genetic factors, etc...

I, for example, have been a vegetarian for over 25 years. For the past few years I have been eating a little meat ritually, once or twice a month. I had blood tests recently and they found borderline high cholesterol levels!!! And that even though I exercise intensely at least three times a week.

WTF???

AND not only am I vegetarian, but I also eat really well: Heaps of fruit and vegetables. No fried foods (well, maybe once every couple of weeks I will eat some freshly fried potato chips cooked in local olive oil). Minimal high fat cheeses. Lots of locally grown products. Very little sugar. No junk food. Etc...

:shrug:
Not all vegetarian fats are good, but sometimes the main reason for high cholesterol, especially the 'bad' stuff, is genetic.
http://www.khyung.com

Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)

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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Great Vegan Debate

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:37 pm

Mantrik wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:42 pm
Grigoris wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:09 pm
Nemo wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:13 am
The month of Saga Dawa has started. Peaking on the next full moon. What a wonderful time to be vegetarian for a few days. Even not preparing meat in the house till the full moon. Anything helps.
I was in Vietnam a couple of weeks ago for the United Nations Vesak Day conference. They had the most incredible buffet of vegan and vegetarian food I have ever seen in my life for the participants.

After the conference I stayed a few more days in Hanoi to see the city. It is full of vegan restaurants for the Mahayana crowd.

I ate some incredible food.

Even the standard restaurants all had vegetarian and vegan versions of their dishes.

It is stupid to say that this or that particular diet is inherently healthy or unhealthy. It depends on so many factors: how you eat, what you eat, when you eat it, what you combine it with, your activity levels, certain genetic factors, etc...

I, for example, have been a vegetarian for over 25 years. For the past few years I have been eating a little meat ritually, once or twice a month. I had blood tests recently and they found borderline high cholesterol levels!!! And that even though I exercise intensely at least three times a week.

WTF???

AND not only am I vegetarian, but I also eat really well: Heaps of fruit and vegetables. No fried foods (well, maybe once every couple of weeks I will eat some freshly fried potato chips cooked in local olive oil). Minimal high fat cheeses. Lots of locally grown products. Very little sugar. No junk food. Etc...

:shrug:
Not all vegetarian fats are good, but sometimes the main reason for high cholesterol, especially the 'bad' stuff, is genetic.
My whole family has low HDL, the only thing we have ever been able to do to affect it is lose weight - pretty much all extra weight, it's to the point where even 5-10 extra pounds has an affect. Diet seems to have literally no effect on the numbers, other than indirectly by helping one lose weight.

I exercise like hell, I do stuff that would make a lot of people puke in terms of pure intensity... It doesn't make me lose weight (still shaped more and more like a potato every day, frankly), nor does it affect my cholesterol numbers. It -does- improve my blood pressure, which when taken alongside the low HDL, high LDL numbers makes for a lower risk of heart disease etc.

The worse my numbers have ever been was the last time I was vegetarian I think. I grant you that I was more overweight, and this was the main factor, but a vegetarian diet doesn't really guarantee anything. Our bodies also just get worse at dealing with everything as we age, that's samsara for ya.
There's no hoarding what has vanished,
No piling up for the future;
Those who have been born are standing
Like a seed upon a needle.

-Guhatthaka-suttaniddeso

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Nemo
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Re: Great Vegan Debate

Post by Nemo » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:59 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:09 pm
Nemo wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:13 am
The month of Saga Dawa has started. Peaking on the next full moon. What a wonderful time to be vegetarian for a few days. Even not preparing meat in the house till the full moon. Anything helps.
I was in Vietnam a couple of weeks ago for the United Nations Vesak Day conference. They had the most incredible buffet of vegan and vegetarian food I have ever seen in my life for the participants.

After the conference I stayed a few more days in Hanoi to see the city. It is full of vegan restaurants for the Mahayana crowd.

I ate some incredible food.

Even the standard restaurants all had vegetarian and vegan versions of their dishes.

It is stupid to say that this or that particular diet is inherently healthy or unhealthy. It depends on so many factors: how you eat, what you eat, when you eat it, what you combine it with, your activity levels, certain genetic factors, etc...

I, for example, have been a vegetarian for over 25 years. For the past few years I have been eating a little meat ritually, once or twice a month. I had blood tests recently and they found borderline high cholesterol levels!!! And that even though I exercise intensely at least three times a week.

WTF???

AND not only am I vegetarian, but I also eat really well: Heaps of fruit and vegetables. No fried foods (well, maybe once every couple of weeks I will eat some freshly fried potato chips cooked in local olive oil). Minimal high fat cheeses. Lots of locally grown products. Very little sugar. No junk food. Etc...

:shrug:
Last time I tried to go veg it was winter. Winters here are brutal contests of survival so making that change in summer is much easier. My body hates it long term but a few weeks is easy. I was hungry all the time the first 5 days vegetarian but then it went away. Sweeping generalizations about the dubious health benefits of fringe diets are silly. Deciding to eat fewer animals to reduce their suffering is pretty solid though.

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Grigoris
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Re: Great Vegan Debate

Post by Grigoris » Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:03 pm

Nemo wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:59 pm
Deciding to eat fewer animals to reduce their suffering is pretty solid though.
That is basically my motivation.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Nemo
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Re: Great Vegan Debate

Post by Nemo » Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:11 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:03 pm
Nemo wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:59 pm
Deciding to eat fewer animals to reduce their suffering is pretty solid though.
That is basically my motivation.
But are you really vegetarian? Isn't that like saying you aren't a cannibal because you haven't eaten anyone lately. :rolleye:

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Grigoris
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Re: Great Vegan Debate

Post by Grigoris » Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:23 pm

Nemo wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:11 pm
But are you really vegetarian? Isn't that like saying you aren't a cannibal because you haven't eaten anyone lately. :rolleye:
You mean because I eat some meat in ritual practice?

Yes, I still consider myself a vegetarian.

Just like I still consider that I keep the fifth precept, although I drink some alcohol ritually.

Tsok is not the same as going to a bar and ordering a burger and a beer.

Not in the slightest.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Nemo
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Re: Great Vegan Debate

Post by Nemo » Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:27 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:23 pm
Nemo wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:11 pm
But are you really vegetarian? Isn't that like saying you aren't a cannibal because you haven't eaten anyone lately. :rolleye:
You mean because I eat some meat in ritual practice?

Yes, I still consider myself a vegetarian.

Just like I still consider that I keep the fifth precept, although I drink some alcohol ritually.

Tsok is not the same as going to a bar and ordering a burger and a beer.

Not in the slightest.
I was just joking. I knew some Brahmins from Sri Lanka who would tease vegetarians that they weren't REAL vegetarians unless they had never eaten meat in their entire life. Their take on the no true Scotsman prank.

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Nemo
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Re: Great Vegan Debate

Post by Nemo » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:36 pm

Honestly going veg is not going amazing. My coffee consumption has doubled and I ate half a box of cookies last night which I never do.

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Miroku
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Re: Great Vegan Debate

Post by Miroku » Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:06 pm

Nemo wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:36 pm
Honestly going veg is not going amazing. My coffee consumption has doubled and I ate half a box of cookies last night which I never do.
You might need more lentils or other carb sources to have enough calories.
A boat delivers you to the other riverbank.
A needle stitches up your clothes.
A horse takes you where you want to go.
Bodhicitta will bring you to Buddhahood.
~ Khunu Lama Rinpoche

Even non-buddhists have many virtuous accomplishments
~ Jigten Sumgon

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Mantrik
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Re: Great Vegan Debate

Post by Mantrik » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:08 pm

Nemo wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:36 pm
Honestly going veg is not going amazing. My coffee consumption has doubled and I ate half a box of cookies last night which I never do.
Me neither. It's the whole box or nothing!

Snacking slowly on nuts may work better as the protein satisfies appetite better than a load of sugar and fat.
http://www.khyung.com

Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)

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