The harms of Masturbation and Porn

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Zhen Li
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Re: The harms of Masturbation and Porn

Post by Zhen Li » Sun Jul 12, 2015 5:48 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:Maybe, it does border on proselytizing though IMO. Not in any official capacity, just personally. I mean you have what, a couple of Chinese texts not accepted by other schools as evidence that yours is the 'correct' dharmic view.
I am not advocating people practice what is being claimed. I am merely stating what is claimed. People needn't take it as a personal address. Like I said to theanarchist, not everything revolves around her. The thread is for a general audience.

The only one that is only in Chinese is the the Sutra on Upasaka Precepts, the others are non-Chinese. Also, there's little evidence about non-acceptance of the Sutra on Upasaka Precepts in Tibetan Buddhism, other than it's simple absence from their canon, which is fairly arbitrary and ethnocentric.

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Re: The harms of Masturbation and Porn

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:04 pm

Zhen Li wrote:
theanarchist wrote:But yeah, I'm not a killjoy like you. I think that eating tasty food, spending time in good company, wearing clothes you actually like rather than some old, dirty rags and having the occasional sex and enjoying it WHILE IT LASTS is perfectly acceptable for a lay buddhists in the mahayana tradition.
You're certifiably insane. I never mentioned any of those other things. You're driven by your hatred to make things up about me.

As regards it being acceptable, yes, it is acceptable with a wife. I did not argue against that. Is it the ideal? No.

"IS it ideal"?

What exactly is your scholarly or teaching qualification to be lecturing other Buddhists on "what is ideal" and what is not?
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

-Jeff H.

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Zhen Li
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Re: The harms of Masturbation and Porn

Post by Zhen Li » Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:12 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Zhen Li wrote:
theanarchist wrote:But yeah, I'm not a killjoy like you. I think that eating tasty food, spending time in good company, wearing clothes you actually like rather than some old, dirty rags and having the occasional sex and enjoying it WHILE IT LASTS is perfectly acceptable for a lay buddhists in the mahayana tradition.
You're certifiably insane. I never mentioned any of those other things. You're driven by your hatred to make things up about me.

As regards it being acceptable, yes, it is acceptable with a wife. I did not argue against that. Is it the ideal? No.

"IS it ideal"?

What exactly is your scholarly or teaching qualification to be lecturing other Buddhists on "what is ideal" and what is not?
It's according to the Sutras.

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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: The harms of Masturbation and Porn

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:16 pm

Zhen Li wrote: It's according to the Sutras.

Some sutras sure, and your interpretation of them.

If one searches the Pali and Mahayana canons, one can find support for any number of positions that are more iffy when taken uncritically, that's why commentary and interpretation of the material is such a big deal. If we were able to pick up sutra/sutta and simply say "ah just follow this to the letter", Buddhism would be a very different animal. I really don't like how you present your own attitudes on marriage, sex etc. as if they are or should be the standard for all Buddhists, you are smart enough to know this is not the case and IMO you are being dishonest in this presentation, as well as putting yourself in a position towards your fellow Buddhists that you really have no right putting yourself in..unless there is something I don't know and you actually are a teacher or some such.
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

-Jeff H.

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Zhen Li
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Re: The harms of Masturbation and Porn

Post by Zhen Li » Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:20 pm

We can analyse them if you like. But my point was that the authority was the sutras as is. I also quoted a commentary. I think these are quite representative of opinion on the topic in Mahayana Buddhism in the first millennium. Back then, when Mahayana Buddhism was developing, the view on the ideal sexual relationship was essentially a married one. Other forms of sexuality, and deeds motivated by desire, were not viewed as wholesome.

In the modern age, people have different views.

Whether or not you want to follow one teaching or another is your own prerogative.

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Re: The harms of Masturbation and Porn

Post by theanarchist » Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:50 pm

Zhen Li wrote::
I am not liking the tone and tenor of the discussions I am having on Dharma Wheele.

You don't contribute anything positive to it.

Have not read much of you where you expressed a compassionate, understanding, kind attitude towards people.

So, if you want a such a conversation, go to a thread about suffering or problems of people and begin to write genuinely concerned, compassionate posts about the suffering of those beings, think about what might help them etc.

We just had a branch thread of this one where we discussed the suffering of beings. You were not interested to contribute something constructive but just bashed the idea that western cultural conditioning makes us prone to misunderstanding dharma teachings (which is a problematic situation that creates suffering for those who are affected) So, missed opportunity for you. So don't complain now.
Last edited by theanarchist on Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: The harms of Masturbation and Porn

Post by theanarchist » Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:09 pm

I'm sure you have a buddhist community/group and teacher of your choice you can discuss those topics with.

And if you don't, I recommend, finding one and spending time with fellow buddhists in real ife.

Because, you sound like you have read really a lot. But that's simply not enough. And real life people are much better at giving you the appropriate message, when you claim that you are a superior buddhist just because you don't masturbate.

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Re: The harms of Masturbation and Porn

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Mon Jul 13, 2015 1:40 am

Ok, i'm unlocking the thread for now.

I removed a bunch of bickering and nonsense.

Please try to keep it above the belt (hey, that fits great with the topic doesn't it), I don't want to get all punitive on anyone.
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

-Jeff H.

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