Religious ocd, vow problem, and seeking guidance

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absolute
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Religious ocd, vow problem, and seeking guidance

Post by absolute » Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:16 pm

I think i'm a buddhist. But when i was a kid, i was a highly religious and superstitious kid with ocd. My problem is about 9 or 10 years ago when i was 14 or 15 years old, i made a counter vow against my ocd rituals. In that time, I didn't know that i had ocd , in fact i didn't even know the concept of ocd since english is not my first language, and because of that i had lack of knowledge on mental disorders, and i happened to know about ocd 4 years ago. At that time as i said before i was a highly religious and spiritual kid who thought all the religions are same and their goals are same etc (you know the new age stuff). Anyway, long story short, i made a counter vow, like if i do some rituals even times, i may become this, and if i do that rituals odd times, some bad unwanted thing may happen to me, to Buddha and two other gods from other religions for stopping silly rituals which demanded that if you don't do this certain times before new year eve, some bad thing happen to you. In other word, in order to cancel the ocd rituals' demand, i made a counter vow, and that was a relief for a short period of time about 2 days, then thoughts and fear started to rise that what if i break that vow, and i realized that i made a great mistake of vowing, and i asked forgiveness from the gods from three religions that remove that vow. But since that time, i have had a constant fear of breaking that vow, and what if bad happen to me as i said in the condition of that vow. Can Buddha forgive? Is it possible to remove vow? Please help me, i just want to live my life without any binding.

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Re: Religious ocd, vow problem, and seeking guidance

Post by Dan74 » Fri Aug 04, 2017 3:26 pm

The Buddha does not hold you to your vow, you do.

So it is you, who has to forgive yourself and deal with the consequences of breaking the vow. You make the knot, you untie it, or get yourself further tangled. Up to you.

_/|\_

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Re: Religious ocd, vow problem, and seeking guidance

Post by Vasana » Fri Aug 04, 2017 3:39 pm

I don't know much about OCD or the nature of the vows you took but if it was just a 'vow' you made of your own accord to counteract any OCD rituals, I see no problem in reversing that vow if you think it isn't sustainable to keep it or you are having other troubles doing so.

Maybe you could consider just making vows or promises for short amounts of times rather than permanently. If it helps you to make promises not to engage in OCD rituals and this improves your life, then you can just say "I'll keep this promise/vow for 1 week or 3 days and then I can renew it a few days after that if I think i can do it" etc. This way, you can still see any positive results for days or weeks at a time, but have less inner pressure on yourself to keep them continuously if you know this is difficult. 'Don't let Perfect become the enemy of good.'

This is often how the 5 precepts are given and kept- some people may take one of the precepts for a set amount of time rather than indefinitely if they know it will prove difficult sticking to them.

Buddhas know our capacity and the kinds of ideas we grasp at and don't hold it against us personally when we slip up so don't worry about their forgiveness- their compassion is unconditional. Just do your best and remember to relax as much as possible.
'When alone, watch your mind. When with others, watch your speech'- Old Kadampa saying.

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Re: Religious ocd, vow problem, and seeking guidance

Post by absolute » Fri Aug 04, 2017 5:10 pm

I know this vow is not comparable with ordination vow or any other dharmic vow, but in order to release myself from this silly vow and its condition which i made, do i need to do certain rituals and prayers? Is it possible to remove this vow without karmic debts?

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Re: Religious ocd, vow problem, and seeking guidance

Post by Vasana » Fri Aug 04, 2017 5:16 pm

absolute wrote:I know this vow is not comparable with ordination vow or any other dharmic vow, but in order to release myself from this silly vow and its condition which i made, do i need to do certain rituals and prayers? Is it possible to remove this vow without karmic debts?
If it's not a dharmic vow then you don't need a dharmic ritual or prayer to nullify or 'return it'. Nor do you need to be hard on yourself about it- most people even without OCD have a lot of experience of wanting to change their habits and saying "i'll never do that again" and then they go out and do it...Better to be realistic about it and know that practice, mood, ocd, diligence, meditation and so on, can all go up and down.
'When alone, watch your mind. When with others, watch your speech'- Old Kadampa saying.

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Re: Religious ocd, vow problem, and seeking guidance

Post by topazdreamz » Fri Aug 04, 2017 6:11 pm

absolute wrote:I think i'm a buddhist. But when i was a kid, i was a highly religious and superstitious kid with ocd. My problem is about 9 or 10 years ago when i was 14 or 15 years old, i made a counter vow against my ocd rituals. In that time, I didn't know that i had ocd , in fact i didn't even know the concept of ocd since english is not my first language, and because of that i had lack of knowledge on mental disorders, and i happened to know about ocd 4 years ago. At that time as i said before i was a highly religious and spiritual kid who thought all the religions are same and their goals are same etc (you know the new age stuff). Anyway, long story short, i made a counter vow, like if i do some rituals even times, i may become this, and if i do that rituals odd times, some bad unwanted thing may happen to me, to Buddha and two other gods from other religions for stopping silly rituals which demanded that if you don't do this certain times before new year eve, some bad thing happen to you. In other word, in order to cancel the ocd rituals' demand, i made a counter vow, and that was a relief for a short period of time about 2 days, then thoughts and fear started to rise that what if i break that vow, and i realized that i made a great mistake of vowing, and i asked forgiveness from the gods from three religions that remove that vow. But since that time, i have had a constant fear of breaking that vow, and what if bad happen to me as i said in the condition of that vow. Can Buddha forgive? Is it possible to remove vow? Please help me, i just want to live my life without any binding.
It sounds like the "counter vow" you made was also part of the OCD, just like the first "vow." Both "vows" are made up by your OCD. You need to understand that this is how your OCD works. This is not about breaking vows with Buddha, this is just how your mind works. I'm sorry you are going through it, I know it is be very painful. Be kind and gentle with yourself, as much as you can.

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Re: Religious ocd, vow problem, and seeking guidance

Post by Grigoris » Fri Aug 04, 2017 6:17 pm

I would recommend you go find a teacher to give you some real vows (since you seem to like vows). Just be careful about who the teacher is.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
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Re: Religious ocd, vow problem, and seeking guidance

Post by topazdreamz » Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:10 pm

Grigoris wrote:I would recommend you go find a teacher to give you some real vows (since you seem to like vows). Just be careful about who the teacher is.
I don't think this poster "likes" vows. If the OCD diagnosis is correct, the vows are a compulsion. When you suffer from OCD, compulsions are not fun.

I agree that if absolute wants to go deeper into dharma practice, it would be good to find a teacher - and preferably, one who understands OCD, since that will likely be a theme in absolute's dharma practice for awhile. But I don't think simply taking a "real" vow from a teacher is going to solve the problem that absolute describes, which is that absolute is suffering from OCD.
Last edited by topazdreamz on Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Religious ocd, vow problem, and seeking guidance

Post by Grigoris » Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:33 pm

Their compulsion may as well lead somewhere positive.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: Religious ocd, vow problem, and seeking guidance

Post by AvaLily » Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:03 pm

i too have OCD and no its not fun at all i have Religious OCD to do with being someone who was born into the Catholic church before you are able to talk or crawl a vow was put in place that id be a Catholic No matter what then when i was 9/10 i went to my first confession told my sins and i was forgiven then my first Communion then my confirmation vow i also was made to vow things while i was being abused by the priest then i met my husband and i was made to by my mother to get married in the Catholic church or she and my step dad will not come to the wedding so i had vows them as well ( my mum says am making the abuse up ) vows hurt me a lot but i cant get away from them my step dad died and his funeral was at a Catholic church same with my gran
family members are less understanding of my mental health and other problems and the fact i cant work because of my OCD ( i also have OCD where you think your going to harm other people i cant travel anywhere on my own my husband is my full time carer for this and other reasons )


OCD is so hard to deal with for the person with OCD simple things like traveling by bus or being in public or even going somewhere to meet friends

Religous OCD is just as hard you think your doing the wrong things all the time and some people think that they will end up in hell or dammed
I dont know very much about OCD in Buddhism i struggle with my birth religion a lot and am sometimes drawn back towards it but i know its too harmful for me and i must stay away from it

you can only do what you can manage remember that you are loved even if you make a vow and your are loved if you dont make a vow
YOU ARE LOVED NO MATTER WHAT :namaste:

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Re: Religious ocd, vow problem, and seeking guidance

Post by Jesse » Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:46 am

Grigoris wrote:
Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:33 pm
Their compulsion may as well lead somewhere positive.
I'll have to disagree with you here haha. I've suffered from OCD for around 10-12 years now. OCD can very much be triggered by religious activity, it has been the case for me much of the time. For example as with the OP; he has developed an obsession over his vows, in cases like these; I don't think the solution is to take more vows, but rather to emphasize compassion, especially self-compassion. Also an emphasis on the tool like nature of these techniques. They are from the beginning nothing but tools to help followers of Buddhism reach enlightenment. There is no 'punishment', for breaking a vow. Vow's are nothing more than a self-promise.

You have to remember, we are where we are, spiritually. We can't be anywhere else. It's ok to mess up. It's absolutely fine to fail, and no real Buddhist, Teacher, or Buddha would have anything but compassion, and love for you. Your effort it'self is to be commended.

For me personally, it was a very very long and difficult process, I suffer primarily from what's known as "Pure OCD", Obsessions without Rituals, but that isn't totally accurate. It's actually a fairly recent discovery, but rituals can be entirely mental. Which is the case for me.

It take's the form of what pretty much everyone here knows as monkey mind, except far more powerful. Imagine the worst case monkey mind you can, then imagine that each time a thought arose while in this state, it filled you with mental anguish, pain, stress (physical, and mental). That's pretty much what OCD feels like, but it doesn't go away. You don't really get any relief, day after day, month after month, year after year, no relief. And, If your condition is in an acute phase, it can even follow you into your dreams at night.

I won't say I know how to treat everyone with OCD because that would be stupidly arrogant, however, I do believe that forms of Buddhism that emphasize mindfulness, and with a good enough teacher, even emptiness teachings to some degree, are very helpful for OCD sufferers. Meditation is an absolute must as well. In the same way that we all as Buddhist practitioners move toward understanding how the mind creates the illusion of solidity. How thoughts create reality, and with these realizations, we become less enamored with thoughts, we gain a sort of freedom from them.

This is what is most helpful for OCD in my own experience. If you think of OCD as a very extream case of monkey mind, from which a great deal of delusion, and neurosis originate from, then treating it becomes a little more straightforward. Though it takes ALOT of work, years in my case, and I still suffer from it fairly badly. I would also highly suggest getting treatment from a psychologist, and psychiatrist.

People can call modern medications any name they want, but sometimes they can be very helpful for conditions like these. Without Benzos, I would not be able to make it through the week without breaking down entirely.

There are a number of unconventional drugs I have also found helpful, most of which psychiatrists would not think of first.

MOD NOTE: Out of an abundance of caution, references to specific medications have been removed. The Moderation Team tries to keep a bright line against the recommendation of any medications or drugs that can affect mental health and the Mind in general. We note that Jesse has framed his comments about possibly helpful medications in the context of treatment by mental health professionals. We realize that the sharing of information of this nature, within a responsible treatment framework involving mental health professionals can be helpful, but must make the call against public discussion in the forums.

The reason that anti-anxiety drugs are helpful for OCD is that they reduce the anxiety responses caused by the obsessions, rituals, etc. When you stop the anxiety responses, it slowly stops the obsessions and rituals. You generally obsess because the mind is looking for a solution to this feeling of anxiousness, pain; it's also the direct cause of the ritual. It's an attempt to 'fix', or 'stop' the feelings of anxiety, pain.

Hope this is helpful to someone.
The cost of a thing is the amount of what I call life which is required to be exchanged for it, immediately or in the long run.
-Henry David Thoreau

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Re: Religious ocd, vow problem, and seeking guidance

Post by Bristollad » Thu Sep 28, 2017 5:51 pm

If one has taken monastic vows and wishes to give them back, in the Vinaya the procedure is very simple: one has to simply inform a person who understands, that you are now no longer a monastic. From then on, you are not a monastic and can stop following the training of living in those vows without have broken them. There is not a great complex ritual to go through.

For this vow that you took on - I think simply sitiing quietly and deciding, "From now on I will no longer train myself in this way because it is not helping me", could be the equivalent.

:consoling:

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Re: Religious ocd, vow problem, and seeking guidance

Post by Questionsdharma » Thu May 10, 2018 7:03 pm

My sympathy goes to you.I have the exact same thing.I have had type 3" magical thinking"OCD since the age of 8 or 9,intrusive thoughts and false memories.I have been making vows since last yr to counteract my OCD and intrusive thoughts.for example ,my mind will tell me that if you look at something,touch something,think of something or sometimes if you don't do all that bad things will happen like you,will go into a trance wich you,will,never wake up from,or when you fall asleep and wake up you are in a false realm that seems real but isn't,its a trance.so since age 13 til age 24 or so I believed I was in a trance and did thousands of rituals a week to bring me back to the real world and also hundreds of rituals a day to prevent calamity that id rather not mention.last yr I started making vows to,countreact it.I then in july made a vow that all vows in the future except marriage are optional or invalidated automatically at least I think I did(false memory).I also made many vows to counteract my sinister intrusive thoughts,so my intrusive thoughts would say if you step on this step or move your body this way even accidentally you are vowing that you will never benefit from the golden light sutra...so I quickly made a vow to counteract that that said may I always benefit from the golden light sutra and then I will never do anything that invalidates me benefiting from the the golden light sutra ..then I freaked out!because I thought I said this grammatically wrong wi ch would give the vow its opposite meaning.I then next day vowed to benefit from every mantra and sutra or I think I did .next day intrusive thoughts -against my will-said if you step on this part of the floor you are vowing to never benefit from golden light sutra ,I accidently stepped on it !next day false memories creeped in and OCD said stop reciting all these mantras(namgyalma,vajrapani,karma cleaning mantras and other ones recommended by Lama zopa )because you vowed to amitabha to only recite his mantra 3 months ago...now I know I never did that but it kept telling me I did,so I frantically spent hours trying to remember if I did and panicking and then searched 3 months worth of search history .then I prayed to amitabha himself to release me if I did and prayed to the karmapa.I think I once vowed before all this happened to never vow anything negative because I know my intrusive thoughts tries to say I'm making a vow by touching something that obstructs me from good things so I try to counteract it .my OCD and intrusive thoughts also tell,me stop praying to all these Buddha's for help from" me "because they think you're filthy and worthless,they're irritated with you or they're working for me.this evil intrusive thought came and said all these Buddha's and high lamas are secretly working against you and making sure you don't leave this illusory trance you've been in for 13 yrs.I dismissed it readily,but I've actually had scarier intrusive thoughts in the past .quite a few people have suggested that I'm demon possessed and I wouldn't be surprised if I were,its told,me to do some pretty harmful things to,myself to counteract a greater disaster many times .anyway I'm "glad "there's someone else out there with this exact same,problem maybe were not the only ones and hopefully we will be liberated from this suffering soon .pls keep us in your prayers guys and know that we exist. :cry:

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Re: Religious ocd, vow problem, and seeking guidance

Post by Mantrik » Thu May 10, 2018 8:39 pm

OCD may be a useful driver to keep practice commitments, such as 6 sessions a day of a HYT practice, but I have to say that if it is accompanied by fear (or even panic) if the target is not met, I would avoid the pressure vows may place on someone. Instead, try to seek out professional advice and ask about the potential of using meditation whenever that 'driven' feeling arises.
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Re: Religious ocd, vow problem, and seeking guidance

Post by Jesse » Thu May 10, 2018 11:05 pm

OCD is not the silly little character defect you find on television shows.

OCD is a devastating mental illness that destroys peoples lives. One that sends people to psych wards, intensive care units, and morgues, and that's when they are lucky.

So, can we please stop entertaining the idea that it's a useful condition in any sense?
Oh i'm feeling so ocd today................
The cost of a thing is the amount of what I call life which is required to be exchanged for it, immediately or in the long run.
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Re: Religious ocd, vow problem, and seeking guidance

Post by Jesse » Thu May 10, 2018 11:11 pm

Questionsdharma wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 7:03 pm
My sympathy goes to you.I have the exact same thing.I have had type 3" magical thinking"OCD since the age of 8 or 9,intrusive thoughts and false memories.I have been making vows since last yr to counteract my OCD and intrusive thoughts.for example ,my mind will tell me that if you look at something,touch something,think of something or sometimes if you don't do all that bad things will happen like you,will go into a trance wich you,will,never wake up from,or when you fall asleep and wake up you are in a false realm that seems real but isn't,its a trance.so since age 13 til age 24 or so I believed I was in a trance and did thousands of rituals a week to bring me back to the real world and also hundreds of rituals a day to prevent calamity that id rather not mention.last yr I started making vows to,countreact it.I then in july made a vow that all vows in the future except marriage are optional or invalidated automatically at least I think I did(false memory).I also made many vows to counteract my sinister intrusive thoughts,so my intrusive thoughts would say if you step on this step or move your body this way even accidentally you are vowing that you will never benefit from the golden light sutra...so I quickly made a vow to counteract that that said may I always benefit from the golden light sutra and then I will never do anything that invalidates me benefiting from the the golden light sutra ..then I freaked out!because I thought I said this grammatically wrong wi ch would give the vow its opposite meaning.I then next day vowed to benefit from every mantra and sutra or I think I did .next day intrusive thoughts -against my will-said if you step on this part of the floor you are vowing to never benefit from golden light sutra ,I accidently stepped on it !next day false memories creeped in and OCD said stop reciting all these mantras(namgyalma,vajrapani,karma cleaning mantras and other ones recommended by Lama zopa )because you vowed to amitabha to only recite his mantra 3 months ago...now I know I never did that but it kept telling me I did,so I frantically spent hours trying to remember if I did and panicking and then searched 3 months worth of search history .then I prayed to amitabha himself to release me if I did and prayed to the karmapa.I think I once vowed before all this happened to never vow anything negative because I know my intrusive thoughts tries to say I'm making a vow by touching something that obstructs me from good things so I try to counteract it .my OCD and intrusive thoughts also tell,me stop praying to all these Buddha's for help from" me "because they think you're filthy and worthless,they're irritated with you or they're working for me.this evil intrusive thought came and said all these Buddha's and high lamas are secretly working against you and making sure you don't leave this illusory trance you've been in for 13 yrs.I dismissed it readily,but I've actually had scarier intrusive thoughts in the past .quite a few people have suggested that I'm demon possessed and I wouldn't be surprised if I were,its told,me to do some pretty harmful things to,myself to counteract a greater disaster many times .anyway I'm "glad "there's someone else out there with this exact same,problem maybe were not the only ones and hopefully we will be liberated from this suffering soon .pls keep us in your prayers guys and know that we exist. :cry:

Some of this falls under the realm of OCD, other parts are delusions which are a subtype/form of psychosis. Especially the thought intrusion, and thinking such as 'if you step on this, then this will happen'; this is psychosis. OCD meds will not work, and I hope you've shared these thoughts with your mental health provider, as they would know what to do to help you.



So, please go see a doctor.
The cost of a thing is the amount of what I call life which is required to be exchanged for it, immediately or in the long run.
-Henry David Thoreau

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Re: Religious ocd, vow problem, and seeking guidance

Post by The Cicada » Fri May 11, 2018 4:32 am

absolute wrote:
Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:16 pm
I think i'm a buddhist. But when i was a kid, i was a highly religious and superstitious kid with ocd. My problem is about 9 or 10 years ago when i was 14 or 15 years old, i made a counter vow against my ocd rituals. In that time, I didn't know that i had ocd , in fact i didn't even know the concept of ocd since english is not my first language, and because of that i had lack of knowledge on mental disorders, and i happened to know about ocd 4 years ago. At that time as i said before i was a highly religious and spiritual kid who thought all the religions are same and their goals are same etc (you know the new age stuff). Anyway, long story short, i made a counter vow, like if i do some rituals even times, i may become this, and if i do that rituals odd times, some bad unwanted thing may happen to me, to Buddha and two other gods from other religions for stopping silly rituals which demanded that if you don't do this certain times before new year eve, some bad thing happen to you. In other word, in order to cancel the ocd rituals' demand, i made a counter vow, and that was a relief for a short period of time about 2 days, then thoughts and fear started to rise that what if i break that vow, and i realized that i made a great mistake of vowing, and i asked forgiveness from the gods from three religions that remove that vow. But since that time, i have had a constant fear of breaking that vow, and what if bad happen to me as i said in the condition of that vow. Can Buddha forgive? Is it possible to remove vow? Please help me, i just want to live my life without any binding.
... Slightly off topic...

Have you ever spent any amount of time contemplating Nagarjuna's tetralemma? Or the two truths? (Tiantai adds a third.) Your predicament reminds me of this line from a sutra that was quoted in an old liturgy book I had. "The mass of sins is like frost and dew, the sun of wisdom will melt them away." I wish I had some answer for your predicament.

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Re: Religious ocd, vow problem, and seeking guidance

Post by Questionsdharma » Sat May 12, 2018 6:00 pm

Jesse wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 11:11 pm
Questionsdharma wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 7:03 pm
My sympathy goes to you.I have the exact same thing.I have had type 3" magical thinking"OCD since the age of 8 or 9,intrusive thoughts and false memories.I have been making vows since last yr to counteract my OCD and intrusive thoughts.for example ,my mind will tell me that if you look at something,touch something,think of something or sometimes if you don't do all that bad things will happen like you,will go into a trance wich you,will,never wake up from,or when you fall asleep and wake up you are in a false realm that seems real but isn't,its a trance.so since age 13 til age 24 or so I believed I was in a trance and did thousands of rituals a week to bring me back to the real world and also hundreds of rituals a day to prevent calamity that id rather not mention.last yr I started making vows to,countreact it.I then in july made a vow that all vows in the future except marriage are optional or invalidated automatically at least I think I did(false memory).I also made many vows to counteract my sinister intrusive thoughts,so my intrusive thoughts would say if you step on this step or move your body this way even accidentally you are vowing that you will never benefit from the golden light sutra...so I quickly made a vow to counteract that that said may I always benefit from the golden light sutra and then I will never do anything that invalidates me benefiting from the the golden light sutra ..then I freaked out!because I thought I said this grammatically wrong wi ch would give the vow its opposite meaning.I then next day vowed to benefit from every mantra and sutra or I think I did .next day intrusive thoughts -against my will-said if you step on this part of the floor you are vowing to never benefit from golden light sutra ,I accidently stepped on it !next day false memories creeped in and OCD said stop reciting all these mantras(namgyalma,vajrapani,karma cleaning mantras and other ones recommended by Lama zopa )because you vowed to amitabha to only recite his mantra 3 months ago...now I know I never did that but it kept telling me I did,so I frantically spent hours trying to remember if I did and panicking and then searched 3 months worth of search history .then I prayed to amitabha himself to release me if I did and prayed to the karmapa.I think I once vowed before all this happened to never vow anything negative because I know my intrusive thoughts tries to say I'm making a vow by touching something that obstructs me from good things so I try to counteract it .my OCD and intrusive thoughts also tell,me stop praying to all these Buddha's for help from" me "because they think you're filthy and worthless,they're irritated with you or they're working for me.this evil intrusive thought came and said all these Buddha's and high lamas are secretly working against you and making sure you don't leave this illusory trance you've been in for 13 yrs.I dismissed it readily,but I've actually had scarier intrusive thoughts in the past .quite a few people have suggested that I'm demon possessed and I wouldn't be surprised if I were,its told,me to do some pretty harmful things to,myself to counteract a greater disaster many times .anyway I'm "glad "there's someone else out there with this exact same,problem maybe were not the only ones and hopefully we will be liberated from this suffering soon .pls keep us in your prayers guys and know that we exist. :cry:

Some of this falls under the realm of OCD, other parts are delusions which are a subtype/form of psychosis. Especially the thought intrusion, and thinking such as 'if you step on this, then this will happen'; this is psychosis. OCD meds will not work, and I hope you've shared these thoughts with your mental health provider, as they would know what to do to help you.



So, please go see a doctor.
Hello and peace and blessings

I have been in therapy for 5 years,none of it worked.I have taken haldol for a year and a half,it didn't help even one bit but only gave me brain damage and permanent nightmares like all psychiatric meds do.I have taken sertraline and another SSRI for over a year,and it didn't work one bit only made me sleep 16 hours a day.

I also disagree with you that this is psychosis.psychosis is defined by auditory and visual hallucinations,I have never in my entire life had a audiroty and visual hallucination..EVER.

http://www.gatewayocd.com/magical-think ... treatment/

https://www.optimumperformanceinstitute ... -thinking/

this is type 3 OCD and its subcategory magical thinking OCD :crying: ,most people have lighter forms of OCD,I have been diagnosed 10 yrs ago by the Bascule the top institute in the entire Netherlands for such things as having OCD and Autism but never psychosis.

How do I also know this isn't Psychosis?Because Anytime I have taken low dose Psychedelics like Peyote or in one case Truffles(not promoting illegal substances,in my country the Netherlands they are decriminilized or semi-legal) the Fear,OCD,rituals and strange ideas and intrusive thoughts disappeared for a few days completely,this only happened about 3 times in my entire life and it was the best days of my life,I am not promoting the use of these substances outside of a legal setting and medical supervision by professionals,but medical studies show that-under medical controlled supervisors- they do heal OCD by acting like serotonin and dopamine(theyre chemically almost identical FYI) two chemicals OCD sufferers have too little of or too little going to the right places,wioch is the cause of our disease.psychotic individuals have too much of these chemicals.


I also Am very angry at the poster above you saying OCD can be useful for Dhamma/dharma practice,why do people who are mentally perfectely fine always condescendingly say such things to us?or that they have ocd too!(oh I fold my clothes a little too much and likethe magazines and books in my bookshelf perfectely straight,I have OCD too and I function very well!).OCD is a life destroying,functionally impairing,emotionally wrecking and serious disease .


Namaste

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Grigoris
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Re: Religious ocd, vow problem, and seeking guidance

Post by Grigoris » Sat May 12, 2018 6:41 pm

Questionsdharma wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 6:00 pm
How do I also know this isn't Psychosis?Because Anytime I have taken low dose Psychedelics like Peyote or in one case Truffles(not promoting illegal substances,in my country the Netherlands they are decriminilized or semi-legal) the Fear,OCD,rituals and strange ideas and intrusive thoughts disappeared for a few days completely,this only happened about 3 times in my entire life and it was the best days of my life,I am not promoting the use of these substances outside of a legal setting and medical supervision by professionals,but medical studies show that-under medical controlled supervisors- they do heal OCD by acting like serotonin and dopamine(theyre chemically almost identical FYI) two chemicals OCD sufferers have too little of or too little going to the right places,wioch is the cause of our disease.psychotic individuals have too much of these chemicals.
I have read some scientific research where they found that daily micro-dosing (ie taking a dose too small to cause a fully fledged "trip") with LSD actually helped people with OCD. It was only a small study though, so nothing conclusive has come out of it yet.
why do people who are mentally perfectely fine always condescendingly say such things to us
My friend, nobody is mentally perfectly fine. That is the beauty of samsara.
OCD is a life destroying,functionally impairing,emotionally wrecking and serious disease .
There is a spectrum of OCD, from life-destroying to manageable.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

Jesse
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Re: Religious ocd, vow problem, and seeking guidance

Post by Jesse » Mon May 14, 2018 2:32 am

Questionsdharma wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 6:00 pm
Jesse wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 11:11 pm
Questionsdharma wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 7:03 pm
My sympathy goes to you.I have the exact same thing.I have had type 3" magical thinking"OCD since the age of 8 or 9,intrusive thoughts and false memories.I have been making vows since last yr to counteract my OCD and intrusive thoughts.for example ,my mind will tell me that if you look at something,touch something,think of something or sometimes if you don't do all that bad things will happen like you,will go into a trance wich you,will,never wake up from,or when you fall asleep and wake up you are in a false realm that seems real but isn't,its a trance.so since age 13 til age 24 or so I believed I was in a trance and did thousands of rituals a week to bring me back to the real world and also hundreds of rituals a day to prevent calamity that id rather not mention.last yr I started making vows to,countreact it.I then in july made a vow that all vows in the future except marriage are optional or invalidated automatically at least I think I did(false memory).I also made many vows to counteract my sinister intrusive thoughts,so my intrusive thoughts would say if you step on this step or move your body this way even accidentally you are vowing that you will never benefit from the golden light sutra...so I quickly made a vow to counteract that that said may I always benefit from the golden light sutra and then I will never do anything that invalidates me benefiting from the the golden light sutra ..then I freaked out!because I thought I said this grammatically wrong wi ch would give the vow its opposite meaning.I then next day vowed to benefit from every mantra and sutra or I think I did .next day intrusive thoughts -against my will-said if you step on this part of the floor you are vowing to never benefit from golden light sutra ,I accidently stepped on it !next day false memories creeped in and OCD said stop reciting all these mantras(namgyalma,vajrapani,karma cleaning mantras and other ones recommended by Lama zopa )because you vowed to amitabha to only recite his mantra 3 months ago...now I know I never did that but it kept telling me I did,so I frantically spent hours trying to remember if I did and panicking and then searched 3 months worth of search history .then I prayed to amitabha himself to release me if I did and prayed to the karmapa.I think I once vowed before all this happened to never vow anything negative because I know my intrusive thoughts tries to say I'm making a vow by touching something that obstructs me from good things so I try to counteract it .my OCD and intrusive thoughts also tell,me stop praying to all these Buddha's for help from" me "because they think you're filthy and worthless,they're irritated with you or they're working for me.this evil intrusive thought came and said all these Buddha's and high lamas are secretly working against you and making sure you don't leave this illusory trance you've been in for 13 yrs.I dismissed it readily,but I've actually had scarier intrusive thoughts in the past .quite a few people have suggested that I'm demon possessed and I wouldn't be surprised if I were,its told,me to do some pretty harmful things to,myself to counteract a greater disaster many times .anyway I'm "glad "there's someone else out there with this exact same,problem maybe were not the only ones and hopefully we will be liberated from this suffering soon .pls keep us in your prayers guys and know that we exist. :cry:

Some of this falls under the realm of OCD, other parts are delusions which are a subtype/form of psychosis. Especially the thought intrusion, and thinking such as 'if you step on this, then this will happen'; this is psychosis. OCD meds will not work, and I hope you've shared these thoughts with your mental health provider, as they would know what to do to help you.



So, please go see a doctor.
Hello and peace and blessings

I have been in therapy for 5 years,none of it worked.I have taken haldol for a year and a half,it didn't help even one bit but only gave me brain damage and permanent nightmares like all psychiatric meds do.I have taken sertraline and another SSRI for over a year,and it didn't work one bit only made me sleep 16 hours a day.

I also disagree with you that this is psychosis.psychosis is defined by auditory and visual hallucinations,I have never in my entire life had a audiroty and visual hallucination..EVER.

http://www.gatewayocd.com/magical-think ... treatment/

https://www.optimumperformanceinstitute ... -thinking/

this is type 3 OCD and its subcategory magical thinking OCD :crying: ,most people have lighter forms of OCD,I have been diagnosed 10 yrs ago by the Bascule the top institute in the entire Netherlands for such things as having OCD and Autism but never psychosis.

How do I also know this isn't Psychosis?Because Anytime I have taken low dose Psychedelics like Peyote or in one case Truffles(not promoting illegal substances,in my country the Netherlands they are decriminilized or semi-legal) the Fear,OCD,rituals and strange ideas and intrusive thoughts disappeared for a few days completely,this only happened about 3 times in my entire life and it was the best days of my life,I am not promoting the use of these substances outside of a legal setting and medical supervision by professionals,but medical studies show that-under medical controlled supervisors- they do heal OCD by acting like serotonin and dopamine(theyre chemically almost identical FYI) two chemicals OCD sufferers have too little of or too little going to the right places,wioch is the cause of our disease.psychotic individuals have too much of these chemicals.


I also Am very angry at the poster above you saying OCD can be useful for Dhamma/dharma practice,why do people who are mentally perfectely fine always condescendingly say such things to us?or that they have ocd too!(oh I fold my clothes a little too much and likethe magazines and books in my bookshelf perfectely straight,I have OCD too and I function very well!).OCD is a life destroying,functionally impairing,emotionally wrecking and serious disease .


Namaste

Sometimes it takes decades to find a combination of effective medications, and the medications you mentioned I wouldn't touch with 2 ten foot poles...

Haldol is an ancient anti-psychotic which has been proven to be both ineffective in treatment (other than as a chemical restraint.), and one that causes brain damage, and damage to the nervous system.

https://www.madinamerica.com/2013/07/ha ... eurotoxic/

You have to study this shit, and go in informed when you talk to a psychiatrist. If my psych recommends a drug that I know sucks, doesn't work, or has side effects I don't want, I refuse it. In fact if you are informed enough, and know enough; your psych, will generally let you recommend your own medications, as long as they are allowed for the condition you are diagnosed with.

At the moment I am taking Cymbalta, Seroquel, Buspar, and Klonopin.

However; as a condition of taking the Cymbalta, I chose the dosages of the rest of my meds. That being small doses of Seroquel, 25mg 3 times a day. Also they wanted to take my klonopin away, which I refused. :twothumbsup:

I have seen seroquel used as a chemical restrain so many times it's not even frak funny. In the mental hospital; I saw patients who would just sit there and drool on themselves, because the day before they pissed off the nursing staff; so they had them put on insanely high dosages of seroquel.

I even asked the nurse the dosage one guy was on, 3,000MG.... 3000 frak miligrams.

He could walk, talk, eat, sleep, and shit.. well mostly sleep.. but he was a walking zombie.. and when he sat there or talked to you(incoherantly), he would drool to the point that his shirt would be wet.

I got so pissed off at the staff there, they just avoided me, because 99.9% of people do not have the knowledge, will, or ability to stand up for themselves in these types of places; they knew I did. They coulda shot me up with 10,000mg of Seroquel, and 100mg of Ativan (actually the typical combination(not dosage) for people caught fighting, fu.cking, or otherwise misbehaving in the MH.)

I would of just been high essentially, my body is so used to drugs they just don't effect me the same anymore, but for example, a simple call to your insurance, or a lawyer would shut that shit down pretty quick. Not that youd be able to win a case against a large hospital, especially a state ran one, but they like to avoid legal trouble, and especially publicity.

Anyway, I've been in and out of mental hospitals most of my life, I've seen alot.. and I know most of the system is totally F.UCKED.

That said, there are good people working in mental health, it's just that finding them is ridiculously hard, and medication is not a solution, it's a band-aid that's used while you go through a real treatment, any form of proven therapy.

However, in some cases, medication is required lifelong, especially in serious cases of mental illness. I am someone who will take medicine the rest of my life most likely. My OCD is extremely bad.

That said, The "Magical Thinking", is essentially what I said, delusions. They have simply categorized it within the OCD label, and made it a subtype with a funny name. But they could of called it something more accurate, because what it is essentially is OCD with psychotic features.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... l-thinking

Delusions are a type of psychosis. Psychosis is not simply visual and auditory hallucinations. Psychosis spans a wide range of mental phenemena, especially certain types of thinking, perceiving, or belief.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... l-thinking
https://www.webmd.com/schizophrenia/gui ... sychosis#1
http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=s01 ... xt&tlng=en
The cost of a thing is the amount of what I call life which is required to be exchanged for it, immediately or in the long run.
-Henry David Thoreau

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