Giving Up Masturbation

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Könchok Thrinley
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Re: Giving Up Masturbation

Post by Könchok Thrinley »

krish5 wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:45 pm
Yes, agreed, and nicely stated. But my issue is not the mind, it is only the concern for the physical body. I am clear on sex, masturbation, etc i have no problems with it, i dont see it as bad, etc. I just want to make sure if i choose the celibate path, which btw, i have done now for 3 months, no masturbation, no sexual images/pornography, etc i just want to make sure i dont have any problems with my prostate later on, etc. So just physically, biologically, i am looking for answers. As some post, many western doctors i believe think that occasional masturbation is healthy for the body. I dont know if this is true or not. If i knew for sure that complete celibacy was just as healthy, or even more healthy for the physical body, i would lean towards that path. If it helps to do the occasional masturbation for health reasons, i probably will do so.
Depends, you should be okay. The biggest problem I have seen is with managing the actual sexual needs than the physical side of things. Nocturnal emission is not a problem, so isn't erection. The problem is that people feel the "discomfort" of needing it and that can lead to nasty deeds.
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

Formerly known as Miroku.
krish5
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Re: Giving Up Masturbation

Post by krish5 »

Könchok Thrinley wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:57 pm
krish5 wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:45 pm
Yes, agreed, and nicely stated. But my issue is not the mind, it is only the concern for the physical body. I am clear on sex, masturbation, etc i have no problems with it, i dont see it as bad, etc. I just want to make sure if i choose the celibate path, which btw, i have done now for 3 months, no masturbation, no sexual images/pornography, etc i just want to make sure i dont have any problems with my prostate later on, etc. So just physically, biologically, i am looking for answers. As some post, many western doctors i believe think that occasional masturbation is healthy for the body. I dont know if this is true or not. If i knew for sure that complete celibacy was just as healthy, or even more healthy for the physical body, i would lean towards that path. If it helps to do the occasional masturbation for health reasons, i probably will do so.
Depends, you should be okay. The biggest problem I have seen is with managing the actual sexual needs than the physical side of things. Nocturnal emission is not a problem, so isn't erection. The problem is that people feel the "discomfort" of needing it and that can lead to nasty deeds.
I am in a great space right now, 3 months no sexual anything and i am content with this. But i know from experience and experimenting with this sexual energy, it goes in cycles. Once i indulge once, to even do anything, tons of sexual energy comes forth and i go to the opposite extreme, too much indulgence in it and wastage of energy. And can go on for awhile, almost daily or several times a week, and can last for months. It is such a wastage of time and energy i noticed too. Doesnt help me on my spiritual path at all.

During this time, about two or three times i have had nocturnal emissions. That still happens and i cannot stop it. Nor am i trying to stop those.
Simon E.
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Re: Giving Up Masturbation

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In the end it’s your choice. I will just say that eight of the most impressive and (as far as I could tell) realised Buddhist teachers I have met have been married with kids.
So as far as I can see choosing to live without sex has little to do with attainment in terms of Buddhadharma. At least in its Vajrayana form.
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
krish5
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Re: Giving Up Masturbation

Post by krish5 »

Simon E. wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:55 pm In the end it’s your choice. I will just say that eight of the most impressive and (as far as I could tell) realised Buddhist teachers I have met have been married with kids.
So as far as I can see choosing to live without sex has little to do with attainment in terms of Buddhadharma. At least in its Vajrayana form.
Thank you for your input. So basically most are saying the positives of sex/masturbation, in moderation, outweighs celibacy and abstinence for non monastics like myself.
Simon E.
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Re: Giving Up Masturbation

Post by Simon E. »

Perhaps it’s a matter of individual judgement?
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
krish5
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Re: Giving Up Masturbation

Post by krish5 »

Simon E. wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:01 pm Perhaps it’s a matter of individual judgement?
Exactly! Each to their own. We all have to find what works best for each of us.
Sādhaka
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Re: Giving Up Masturbation

Post by Sādhaka »

krish5 wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 8:44 pm Thank you for your input. So basically most are saying the positives of sex/masturbation, in moderation, outweighs celibacy and abstinence for non monastics like myself.

I wouldn't frame it: “sex/masturbation” though. Two totally different ballgames (pun not originally intended, but I’ll roll with it).

Many things that the NoFap movement says about porn and how it divorces the mind & body from reality, are true. Not to put any sanctimonious moral judgement on it, it’s just that it seems that the science shows how pmo (porn masturbation orgasm) has little to no benefit.

For example, from what I’ve read studies have shown that masturbation does not increase testosterone, whereas actual sex does increase testosterone in men.
krish5
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Re: Giving Up Masturbation

Post by krish5 »

Sādhaka wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:30 am
krish5 wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 8:44 pm Thank you for your input. So basically most are saying the positives of sex/masturbation, in moderation, outweighs celibacy and abstinence for non monastics like myself.

I wouldn't frame it: “sex/masturbation” though. Two totally different ballgames (pun not originally intended, but I’ll roll with it).

Many things that the NoFap movement says about porn and how it divorces the mind & body from reality, are true. Not to put any sanctimonious moral judgement on it, it’s just that it seems that the science shows how pmo (porn masturbation orgasm) has little to no benefit.

For example, from what I’ve read studies have shown that masturbation does not increase testosterone, whereas actual sex does increase testosterone in men.
Thank you. This is a embarrassing thread, and just trying to keep it sounding somewhat normal, natural, lol. Porn is not healthy, agreed.
Sādhaka
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Re: Giving Up Masturbation

Post by Sādhaka »

Nothing to be embarrassed about at all.

Just about everyone relapses every now & then (not to justify it of course).

Sexual intercourse is healthy (in general). Fantasizing & repression are not (in general).

For those with average to little possibility of actual sex, there is Tummo & Trul-Khor (and the latter would be very beneficial for those who have regular sexual intercourse as well).
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JoaoRodrigues
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Re: Giving Up Masturbation

Post by JoaoRodrigues »

What's appealing to men's and women's have been changing, I'll talk about mans because those are the ones I know about. It was once ankles, now it's butts. Sexual drive depends on stimulation, there are people that live in seclusion for many years and they don't have any type of sexual drive, even if they want to, they lack imagination and stimulation. There is a vietnamit saying, I believe, I don't know the exact words, but it says something like: a tiger in the jungle is save, once he arrives in a town, he finds danger. That's the same for human beings, stimulation for those who don't see it's nature is dangerous in many ways. Monks usually, have much less stimulation, they live in monasteries, it's much easier for them to be able to don't resort to masturbation because there is not that much stimulation to begin with. I've had Balanitis for some time now, it was very uncomfortable, not so much now, it was my skin reaction to something I don't really know, masturbation was forbidden until it healed, it was advised to me to do not masturbate for 9-12 months. Because I live among other people, it was hard not to, it isn't that much right now, because I learned, mentalize myself about the first thing I wrote in this message, it was all in my head, like all things.
Crazywisdom
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Re: Giving Up Masturbation

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It all depends on your practice. Leave disturbing activities and get centered somehow.
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Wayfarer
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Re: Giving Up Masturbation

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Western culture went through the sexual revolution in the middle decades of the 20th Century. It completely changed societal attitudes towards sexual behaviours, relationships, ethics and identity. But now that has become 'the new normal' in Western culture, it's hard to remember what has changed, or what it was like before, and the concept of 'normal' or 'ordinary' sexual relationships is completely different to what it was before this time and in many (or most) traditional cultures. These differences have been vastly amplified by cyber- and internet sexuality, which has, in the period of a couple of decades, become ubiquitous throughout the entire Western world and is readily available to anyone with a connected device.

Buddhism often doesn't have a lot to say about sexual relationships - other than the traditional admonishments about 'the canker of sensuality', of which sexual enjoyment is a prime example. This reticence has often been interpreted as a laissez faire attitude but that is because, well, it's a sensitive topic, especially for a tradition which has generally not been oriented around sexuality and family. I don't think Buddhism is very good at talking about it. And also if traditional Buddhists speak up against liberal moral views, it doesn't necessarily go well for them. But reticence ought not to be taken as assent.

There's some good in-depth articles on the general topic of Buddhism and sexuality in the Berzin Study Buddhism site. There's also some good articles by scholar José Cabezón.

But my view is, and taking all this into account, porn is poison, and it's insidious. Very difficult to avoid, but must be avoided.
'Only practice with no gaining idea' ~ Suzuki Roshi
Malcolm
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Re: Giving Up Masturbation

Post by Malcolm »

krish5 wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:04 am
Sādhaka wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:30 am
krish5 wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 8:44 pm Thank you for your input. So basically most are saying the positives of sex/masturbation, in moderation, outweighs celibacy and abstinence for non monastics like myself.

I wouldn't frame it: “sex/masturbation” though. Two totally different ballgames (pun not originally intended, but I’ll roll with it).

Many things that the NoFap movement says about porn and how it divorces the mind & body from reality, are true. Not to put any sanctimonious moral judgement on it, it’s just that it seems that the science shows how pmo (porn masturbation orgasm) has little to no benefit.

For example, from what I’ve read studies have shown that masturbation does not increase testosterone, whereas actual sex does increase testosterone in men.
Thank you. This is a embarrassing thread, and just trying to keep it sounding somewhat normal, natural, lol. Porn is not healthy, agreed.
IDK, compared to Philosophy in the Bedroom or 120 Days of Sodom by De Sade,or Story of the Eye by Bataille, today’s porn is pretty vanilla. If anything, it is not content that is problematical, but the lack of regulation as well as the kind of exploitation that women suffer in the Porn industry that is an issue.
Malcolm
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Re: Giving Up Masturbation

Post by Malcolm »

Wayfarer wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:45 pm And also if traditional Buddhists speak up against liberal moral views, it doesn't necessarily go well for them.
.

But we see again and again, people who claim to be against porn, abortion, drugs, and so on, are total hypocrites.
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Re: Giving Up Masturbation

Post by Malcolm »

Then of course there is the “hand” mudra in Vajrayana practice.
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Wayfarer
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Re: Giving Up Masturbation

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I respect your scholarship but I don’t agree at all with your libertarian social views, nor do I think they should be conflated.
'Only practice with no gaining idea' ~ Suzuki Roshi
Malcolm
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Re: Giving Up Masturbation

Post by Malcolm »

Wayfarer wrote: Sat Jun 20, 2020 1:57 am I respect your scholarship but I don’t agree at all with your libertarian social views, nor do I think they should be conflated.
Um...that should be libertine, not libertarian. Obscenity laws crashed and burned on Naked Lunch, as they should have.
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Wayfarer
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Re: Giving Up Masturbation

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Whatever :thinking:
'Only practice with no gaining idea' ~ Suzuki Roshi
Malcolm
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Re: Giving Up Masturbation

Post by Malcolm »

Wayfarer wrote: Sat Jun 20, 2020 2:40 am Whatever :thinking:
You seem to think Buddhist morality is commensurate with some Victorian sensibility about love, passion, and so on. Well, no, it’s just not that way. One of Buddha’s most important disciples was a “working girl.”
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Wayfarer
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Re: Giving Up Masturbation

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Victorian, yeah. If you're not hip then you're an antique.
'Only practice with no gaining idea' ~ Suzuki Roshi
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