Are sun salutations a good substitute for Tibetan-style long prostrations?
Are sun salutations a good substitute for Tibetan-style long prostrations?
Malcolm said this once long ago.
Malcolm, do you still agree with this?
I have on and off knee and calf issues and the "long" prostrations that Tibetans do make me uncomfortable. In particular I find the "sliding out" from a kneeling position rather problematic. The sun salutation way is to jump backwards, into a pushup position, similar to burpees, which seems much healthier to me.
I never had a teacher who was really strict about prostrations of course, in fact, my teachers (besides ChNN of course) gave alternatives like even sitting prostrations if I do ngondro, although they said I could try doing some prostrations and see how it goes.
I am thinking of starting a complete ngondro starting next year, once I make a career change and complete the current practice accumulations I am doing.
Malcolm, do you still agree with this?
I have on and off knee and calf issues and the "long" prostrations that Tibetans do make me uncomfortable. In particular I find the "sliding out" from a kneeling position rather problematic. The sun salutation way is to jump backwards, into a pushup position, similar to burpees, which seems much healthier to me.
I never had a teacher who was really strict about prostrations of course, in fact, my teachers (besides ChNN of course) gave alternatives like even sitting prostrations if I do ngondro, although they said I could try doing some prostrations and see how it goes.
I am thinking of starting a complete ngondro starting next year, once I make a career change and complete the current practice accumulations I am doing.
Re: Are sun salutations a good substitute for Tibetan-style long prostrations?
Yes
MiphamFan wrote: ↑Sat Sep 08, 2018 5:35 am Malcolm said this once long ago.
Malcolm, do you still agree with this?
I have on and off knee and calf issues and the "long" prostrations that Tibetans do make me uncomfortable. In particular I find the "sliding out" from a kneeling position rather problematic. The sun salutation way is to jump backwards, into a pushup position, similar to burpees, which seems much healthier to me.
I never had a teacher who was really strict about prostrations of course, in fact, my teachers (besides ChNN of course) gave alternatives like even sitting prostrations if I do ngondro, although they said I could try doing some prostrations and see how it goes.
I am thinking of starting a complete ngondro starting next year, once I make a career change and complete the current practice accumulations I am doing.
Re: Are sun salutations a good substitute for Tibetan-style long prostrations?
Thanks.Malcolm wrote: ↑Sat Sep 08, 2018 5:45 am Yes
MiphamFan wrote: ↑Sat Sep 08, 2018 5:35 am Malcolm said this once long ago.
Malcolm, do you still agree with this?
I have on and off knee and calf issues and the "long" prostrations that Tibetans do make me uncomfortable. In particular I find the "sliding out" from a kneeling position rather problematic. The sun salutation way is to jump backwards, into a pushup position, similar to burpees, which seems much healthier to me.
I never had a teacher who was really strict about prostrations of course, in fact, my teachers (besides ChNN of course) gave alternatives like even sitting prostrations if I do ngondro, although they said I could try doing some prostrations and see how it goes.
I am thinking of starting a complete ngondro starting next year, once I make a career change and complete the current practice accumulations I am doing.
What about that yoga history book which said that sun salutations are actually relatively modern and adapted from some exercise drills by some Maharaja IIRC?
I guess the historical context isn't that important, but it's still a good, healthy movement?
I remember reading about Hindu pushups before and just found this:
It seems to me that the sun salutation probably evolved from something like this.
In
Re: Are sun salutations a good substitute for Tibetan-style long prostrations?
Someone needs to tell the guys in the video to keep their feet on the ground instead of squatting on their toes.MiphamFan wrote: ↑Sat Sep 08, 2018 8:25 amThanks.Malcolm wrote: ↑Sat Sep 08, 2018 5:45 am Yes
MiphamFan wrote: ↑Sat Sep 08, 2018 5:35 am Malcolm said this once long ago.
Malcolm, do you still agree with this?
I have on and off knee and calf issues and the "long" prostrations that Tibetans do make me uncomfortable. In particular I find the "sliding out" from a kneeling position rather problematic. The sun salutation way is to jump backwards, into a pushup position, similar to burpees, which seems much healthier to me.
I never had a teacher who was really strict about prostrations of course, in fact, my teachers (besides ChNN of course) gave alternatives like even sitting prostrations if I do ngondro, although they said I could try doing some prostrations and see how it goes.
I am thinking of starting a complete ngondro starting next year, once I make a career change and complete the current practice accumulations I am doing.
What about that yoga history book which said that sun salutations are actually relatively modern and adapted from some exercise drills by some Maharaja IIRC?
I guess the historical context isn't that important, but it's still a good, healthy movement?
I remember reading about Hindu pushups before and just found this:
It seems to me that the sun salutation probably evolved from something like this.
In
Re: Are sun salutations a good substitute for Tibetan-style long prostrations?
I went to skim Singleton's book on the history of yoga, which has some passages on the modern origins of suryanamskara.
He cited a 1936 book, Fakirs et Yogis des Indes, by De Maitre, which mentioned that pilgrims used to perform dands on pilgrimages. This is of course very reminiscent of how Tibetan pilgrims do the same with prostrations. Interesting, I wonder if people still do this in modern India.
EDIT
I found this old book by the Rajah of Aundh, one of the pioneers of Surayanamaskara on Scribd:
In chapter X, he talks about how he actually modified the procedure he originally learned to something resembling the modern version. He modified the movement to have "more strain" on the abdomen, the legs, the waist etc.
At the risk of sounding like a nitpicker, one thing about modern sun salutations that does scare me is hyper-extending the back in a lot of the positions. However, the diagrams in all these old books actually don't really have that.
He cited a 1936 book, Fakirs et Yogis des Indes, by De Maitre, which mentioned that pilgrims used to perform dands on pilgrimages. This is of course very reminiscent of how Tibetan pilgrims do the same with prostrations. Interesting, I wonder if people still do this in modern India.
EDIT
I found this old book by the Rajah of Aundh, one of the pioneers of Surayanamaskara on Scribd:
In chapter X, he talks about how he actually modified the procedure he originally learned to something resembling the modern version. He modified the movement to have "more strain" on the abdomen, the legs, the waist etc.
At the risk of sounding like a nitpicker, one thing about modern sun salutations that does scare me is hyper-extending the back in a lot of the positions. However, the diagrams in all these old books actually don't really have that.
Re: Are sun salutations a good substitute for Tibetan-style long prostrations?
I found more info about the Hindu prostrations.
They are called Sashstanga danda pradakshina. This article about pilgrimages to Mount Kailash contrasts Tibetan practice of prostrations with Hindu non-practice in modern times: https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... 14_214-231
They are kinda in between Tibetan prostrations and the suryanamaskara variations. When you go down on the floor, you still do so from a squat position, putting your legs back one by one, rather than kneel and "roll forward" like Tibetan long prostrations, but you lie flat on the ground at the very bottom, unlike the suryanamaskaras.
Here's a video
I think the "old" Suryanamaskaras without the hyperextensions are probably the healthiest. So basically take a modern Surayanamaskara, but don't do those hyperextension warrior poses.
I tried the Rajah of Aundh's method above and found it pretty smooth, there is no "warrior pose" etc, no hyperextension, but I guess peoplke should still be careful if they feel any strain.
I find the rhetoric about prostrations in some Tibetan Buddhist communities a bit masochistic, I prefer to err on the side of caution with regards to one's health.
They are called Sashstanga danda pradakshina. This article about pilgrimages to Mount Kailash contrasts Tibetan practice of prostrations with Hindu non-practice in modern times: https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... 14_214-231
They are kinda in between Tibetan prostrations and the suryanamaskara variations. When you go down on the floor, you still do so from a squat position, putting your legs back one by one, rather than kneel and "roll forward" like Tibetan long prostrations, but you lie flat on the ground at the very bottom, unlike the suryanamaskaras.
Here's a video
I think the "old" Suryanamaskaras without the hyperextensions are probably the healthiest. So basically take a modern Surayanamaskara, but don't do those hyperextension warrior poses.
I tried the Rajah of Aundh's method above and found it pretty smooth, there is no "warrior pose" etc, no hyperextension, but I guess peoplke should still be careful if they feel any strain.
I find the rhetoric about prostrations in some Tibetan Buddhist communities a bit masochistic, I prefer to err on the side of caution with regards to one's health.
-
- Posts: 2124
- Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:32 am
Re: Are sun salutations a good substitute for Tibetan-style long prostrations?
these are some of my favorite prostrations.
https://www.istockphoto.com/photos/man- ... 20sleeping
https://www.istockphoto.com/photos/man- ... 20sleeping
Re: Are sun salutations a good substitute for Tibetan-style long prostrations?
umm what did I just watch? With that Midnight Express soundtrack too?MiphamFan wrote: ↑Sat Sep 08, 2018 8:25 amThanks.Malcolm wrote: ↑Sat Sep 08, 2018 5:45 am Yes
MiphamFan wrote: ↑Sat Sep 08, 2018 5:35 am Malcolm said this once long ago.
Malcolm, do you still agree with this?
I have on and off knee and calf issues and the "long" prostrations that Tibetans do make me uncomfortable. In particular I find the "sliding out" from a kneeling position rather problematic. The sun salutation way is to jump backwards, into a pushup position, similar to burpees, which seems much healthier to me.
I never had a teacher who was really strict about prostrations of course, in fact, my teachers (besides ChNN of course) gave alternatives like even sitting prostrations if I do ngondro, although they said I could try doing some prostrations and see how it goes.
I am thinking of starting a complete ngondro starting next year, once I make a career change and complete the current practice accumulations I am doing.
What about that yoga history book which said that sun salutations are actually relatively modern and adapted from some exercise drills by some Maharaja IIRC?
I guess the historical context isn't that important, but it's still a good, healthy movement?
I remember reading about Hindu pushups before and just found this:
It seems to me that the sun salutation probably evolved from something like this.
In
Re: Are sun salutations a good substitute for Tibetan-style long prostrations?
And you got to see the guys tackle at the beginning of the video! Bonus!!!TharpaChodron wrote: ↑Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:51 pmumm what did I just watch? With that Midnight Express soundtrack too?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Re: Are sun salutations a good substitute for Tibetan-style long prostrations?
lolTharpaChodron wrote: ↑Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:51 pmumm what did I just watch? With that Midnight Express soundtrack too?MiphamFan wrote: ↑Sat Sep 08, 2018 8:25 amThanks.
What about that yoga history book which said that sun salutations are actually relatively modern and adapted from some exercise drills by some Maharaja IIRC?
I guess the historical context isn't that important, but it's still a good, healthy movement?
I remember reading about Hindu pushups before and just found this:
It seems to me that the sun salutation probably evolved from something like this.
In
Yeah, the editing doesn't make it very good to learn the rhythm of the exercise from.
Re: Are sun salutations a good substitute for Tibetan-style long prostrations?
well I got the rhythm of the exercise pretty well.MiphamFan wrote: ↑Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:27 amlolTharpaChodron wrote: ↑Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:51 pmumm what did I just watch? With that Midnight Express soundtrack too?MiphamFan wrote: ↑Sat Sep 08, 2018 8:25 am
Thanks.
What about that yoga history book which said that sun salutations are actually relatively modern and adapted from some exercise drills by some Maharaja IIRC?
I guess the historical context isn't that important, but it's still a good, healthy movement?
I remember reading about Hindu pushups before and just found this:
It seems to me that the sun salutation probably evolved from something like this.
In
Yeah, the editing doesn't make it very good to learn the rhythm of the exercise from.
Re: Are sun salutations a good substitute for Tibetan-style long prostrations?
I think Tom of Finland directed that clip.
- Caoimhghín
- Posts: 3419
- Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:35 pm
- Location: Whitby, Ontario
Re: Are sun salutations a good substitute for Tibetan-style long prostrations?
How well-known a figure is he?
I noticed it too.
Then, the monks uttered this gāthā:
These bodies are like foam.
Them being frail, who can rejoice in them?
The Buddha attained the vajra-body.
Still, it becomes inconstant and ruined.
The many Buddhas are vajra-entities.
All are also subject to inconstancy.
Quickly ended, like melting snow --
how could things be different?
The Buddha passed into parinirvāṇa afterward.
(T1.27b10 Mahāparinirvāṇasūtra DĀ 2)
These bodies are like foam.
Them being frail, who can rejoice in them?
The Buddha attained the vajra-body.
Still, it becomes inconstant and ruined.
The many Buddhas are vajra-entities.
All are also subject to inconstancy.
Quickly ended, like melting snow --
how could things be different?
The Buddha passed into parinirvāṇa afterward.
(T1.27b10 Mahāparinirvāṇasūtra DĀ 2)
Re: Are sun salutations a good substitute for Tibetan-style long prostrations?
IMO, it is a very good way to protect your back, knees and do prostrations.
Re: Are sun salutations a good substitute for Tibetan-style long prostrations?
I'm a 0 on the Kinsey scale and I've known about Tom of Finland since I was maybe 8 or 9 years old. My mom introduced me to it. She was a character. Today is her birthday, oddly enough.
- Caoimhghín
- Posts: 3419
- Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:35 pm
- Location: Whitby, Ontario
Re: Are sun salutations a good substitute for Tibetan-style long prostrations?
Why so defensive?
Did you think I was calling you a homosexual?
Then, the monks uttered this gāthā:
These bodies are like foam.
Them being frail, who can rejoice in them?
The Buddha attained the vajra-body.
Still, it becomes inconstant and ruined.
The many Buddhas are vajra-entities.
All are also subject to inconstancy.
Quickly ended, like melting snow --
how could things be different?
The Buddha passed into parinirvāṇa afterward.
(T1.27b10 Mahāparinirvāṇasūtra DĀ 2)
These bodies are like foam.
Them being frail, who can rejoice in them?
The Buddha attained the vajra-body.
Still, it becomes inconstant and ruined.
The many Buddhas are vajra-entities.
All are also subject to inconstancy.
Quickly ended, like melting snow --
how could things be different?
The Buddha passed into parinirvāṇa afterward.
(T1.27b10 Mahāparinirvāṇasūtra DĀ 2)