In general I think there is a place for use of medicines within Dharma, and I think CBD can be used medicinally. I do not think it categorically breaks any precept or is a problem. But again, with that said, if you're not inclined to take it and/or don't need to take it of course that's your choice.Ayu wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 4:38 pmI'm not talking about monastic Vinaya. I think my stance is from psychological view: Why take a substance, if the problem could be solved within the own separated organism?Seeker12 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:17 pmYou know cannabis steam baths are explicitly permitted in the monastic vinaya. I don't see why proper use of CBD oil would be any different essentially.Ayu wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 1:51 pm Just in order to add a controversial view: I would rather stand my psychic tensions - and try to work with them on the base of relaxation methods and analysis - than intoxicate myself with cannabis substances.
But I admit, I am extremely sensitive against psychoactive substances. Even the very slight effect of CBD is not attractive to me.
Of course you can avoid it if you like.
E.g. if someone feels a lack of enthusiam, nobody would recommend a daily dose of coffee. One would rather ask, what is the cause.
Wouldn't you?
CBD oil
Re: CBD oil
“Whoever wants to find the wisdom beyond intellect without praying to his guru is like someone waiting for the sun to shine in a cave facing the north. He will never realize appearances and his mind to be one.”
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche
Re: CBD oil
CBD (Cannabidiol) = Psychoactive. Not intoxicating.
THC (Tetrahydrocannabinol) = Psychoactive. Intoxicating.
THC (Tetrahydrocannabinol) = Psychoactive. Intoxicating.
Re: CBD oil
I just think, not every anxiety should be cured with some substance. One can try non-substancial methods before. Just because of the thought: Where is the anxiety coming from? Will it be gone because of a substance? What if the pharmacy is locked down and the bottle is empty?Seeker12 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:27 pmIn general I think there is a place for use of medicines within Dharma, and I think CBD can be used medicinally. I do not think it categorically breaks any precept or is a problem. But again, with that said, if you're not inclined to take it and/or don't need to take it of course that's your choice.Ayu wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 4:38 pmI'm not talking about monastic Vinaya. I think my stance is from psychological view: Why take a substance, if the problem could be solved within the own separated organism?
E.g. if someone feels a lack of enthusiam, nobody would recommend a daily dose of coffee. One would rather ask, what is the cause.
Wouldn't you?
Should substances be used without questioning them?
Because any symptom might be a hint that tries to tell us something. Like a headache: it might be showing something is not right and a pill might not be the right solution.
Okay. This was only one tiny voice. Carry on.
Re: CBD oil
I absolutely agree Ayu. When my children where still waking up naturally buoyant but starting to get old enough to be exposed to the way of the world I tried to give them some advice. It was that they should seek to maintain balance naturally keeping an eye on sleep, exercise and diet. If they felt they needed more than this they should talk to others about how they feel. I suggested they avoid substance but if they went to a Dr they should seek natural remedies if possible.
Now as someone who has needed medication over my life time I have found certain natural botanical substances conducive to relief with out compromise to my consciousness. Some psychotropics would really disconnect me from my own consciousness and make engaging any practice very difficult. Having choices was beneficial for me. This is not to suggest substances as a means for practice but rather to say some substances seem to make practice more difficult and some don't see to offer the same obstacle. In these matters professional medical advise is essential.
Now as someone who has needed medication over my life time I have found certain natural botanical substances conducive to relief with out compromise to my consciousness. Some psychotropics would really disconnect me from my own consciousness and make engaging any practice very difficult. Having choices was beneficial for me. This is not to suggest substances as a means for practice but rather to say some substances seem to make practice more difficult and some don't see to offer the same obstacle. In these matters professional medical advise is essential.
Re: CBD oil
I don't disagree necessarily at all, but nonetheless I wouldn't categorically say that people shouldn't use medicines, even if they are dharma practitioners. Anyway, just felt like adding that piece to the conversation I suppose.Ayu wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 8:46 pm
I just think, not every anxiety should be cured with some substance. One can try non-substancial methods before. Just because of the thought: Where is the anxiety coming from? Will it be gone because of a substance? What if the pharmacy is locked down and the bottle is empty?
Should substances be used without questioning them?
Because any symptom might be a hint that tries to tell us something. Like a headache: it might be showing something is not right and a pill might not be the right solution.
Okay. This was only one tiny voice. Carry on.
“Whoever wants to find the wisdom beyond intellect without praying to his guru is like someone waiting for the sun to shine in a cave facing the north. He will never realize appearances and his mind to be one.”
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche
- Johnny Dangerous
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Re: CBD oil
Yeah, but you don't have combat-induced PTSD or intractable chronic pain, as far as I know.Ayu wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 1:51 pm Just in order to add a controversial view: I would rather stand my psychic tensions - and try to work with them on the base of relaxation methods and analysis - than intoxicate myself with cannabis substances.
But I admit, I am extremely sensitive against psychoactive substances. Even the very slight effect of CBD is not attractive to me.
I have have had counseling patients that do. They can't sleep due to incessant nightmares reliving violence, pain with no periods of relief etc. People in this position are best served by managing their issue over time from many angles, including using whatever are the least harmful substances -rather than having some stubborn idea that they are going to "solve" the problem by pulling themselves by their own bootstraps and intellectual effort.
Most of the people I know in this boat already use meditation, relaxation techniques, heavy exercise etc. CBD is one (pretty mild) thing they can also use as an alternative to taking heavier pharmaceuticals which often carry their own issues. CBD has almost no negative effects, and nowhere near the kind of issues caused by drugs like opiates and benzodiazpenes.
You can solve a ton of problems through pranayama and similar discipline for instance, but unless someone has the time, training, and effort to -really- put time into these things, then a mild drug like CBD can serve a therapeutic purpose. having had both pretty severe physical and mental health struggles I can honestly say that while it's worth learning to "fix yourself" with pranayamas etc., there are times where you cannot manage the expenditure of energy it takes to get there just to reach a healthy baseline..anyone who has experience chronic depression probably knows where I'm coming from.
Anyway, as drugs go CBD is very mild. You can pop three benadryl and feel more high than on CBD. So again, it is not even intoxicating. This is -not- the case for THC, which is different from CBD and works with a different system, so unless you really understand the difference between the two, you are missing vital info.
Analytical approaches like that ignore that we are also collections of energies, a lack of enthusiasm is not just caused by thoughts or conceptual framing or personality characteristics, but both in Western and other forms of medicine is related to underlying energetic structures and the imbalance therein. Sometimes that is accessible on the level of changing thought through analysis or pyscho-physical exercises and practices, other times that kind of work actually makes the problem worse, or just does nothing to change the imbalance.I'm not talking about monastic Vinaya. I think my stance is from psychological view: Why take a substance, if the problem could be solved within the own separated organism?
E.g. if someone feels a lack of enthusiam, nobody would recommend a daily dose of coffee. One would rather ask, what is the cause.
Wouldn't you?
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Re: CBD oil
Okay. I agree so far. I have only experience with THC. It's getting stronger these decades, because the plants are pumped up with artificial light etc. I can't even tolerate the smell of it.
But if you say CBD is mild - I think I do not get what mild means. Like chamomilla tea or valerian?
I know a schizophrenic person who swears that CBD is his relief. I can understand that and I agree.
But if you say CBD is mild - I think I do not get what mild means. Like chamomilla tea or valerian?
I know a schizophrenic person who swears that CBD is his relief. I can understand that and I agree.
Re: CBD oil
Anyone probably could take dosages of Full Spectrum CBD for about several weeks and notice the effects.
Re: CBD oil
Yes, actually, though a bit stronger than that. It can also be a pain reliever, similar to aspirin or whatever.Ayu wrote: ↑Sat Apr 18, 2020 9:04 am Okay. I agree so far. I have only experience with THC. It's getting stronger these decades, because the plants are pumped up with artificial light etc. I can't even tolerate the smell of it.
But if you say CBD is mild - I think I do not get what mild means. Like chamomilla tea or valerian?
- Johnny Dangerous
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Re: CBD oil
It's a different drug, it works on an entirely different part of the brain related to pain relief, no intoxicating effects, and some reduction of anxiety...what they call "extinction of fears" in some of the studies.
In short, it does not get you high. Full spectrum CBD has small amounts of THC, but unless you are aiming to get a little high too, the amount that's there is negligible for most people. To me it feels like taking a muscle relaxants (I started taking it so that I could stop taking muscle relxanats for my back, which had bad cognitive effects), but without the negative effects. It also has anti-inflammatory properties, I have looked deeply into those but like I said, it has stopped my muscle spasms in a way nothing else ever has.
A small amount of THC + CBD = the drugs have a synergistic effect and have some evidence for pain relief, PTSD, etc.
At larger amounts of THC they have an antagonistic relationship, and THC is contra-indicated for anxiety generally. If someone smokes lots of THC they also become habituated to a big seratonin and I think dopamine bump, and when that bump is gone, sometimes soreness, depression etc. result.
Eventually people "wake and bake"...this is abuse, heading towards addictive behavior and is different from someone simply using occasionally recreationally, and much different from someone using small amounts of THC/CBD to treat medical conditions.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama