Is suicide OK?

A forum for discussion of Buddhist ethics.
User avatar
Grigoris
Former staff member
Posts: 14026
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Is suicide OK?

Postby Grigoris » Fri Jun 02, 2017 4:00 pm

Tolya M wrote:The list of possible types of suffering is large and an even longer is list of conditions. It is quite clear that the intentional abandonment of the body can stop some of the suffering. This dependence of the level of "stop being sick". It is true within Abhidharma\Abhidhamma without any problems. It does not even make sense to consider it, it's so obvious.
Stop cherry picking, it doesn't make you look smart.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

boda
Posts: 1419
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:40 pm

Re: Is suicide OK?

Postby boda » Fri Jun 02, 2017 6:44 pm

Grigoris wrote:
boda wrote:I doubt many of the unfortunate folks who contemplate suicide because of their unbearable pain delve deeply into philosophical frameworks of any sort. Regardless of their religious beliefs, or philosophical frameworks, they just want the pain to stop.

In this light I think it would be fairer to say that this degree of pain tests a persons convictions, merely.

I deal with people that mainly have mental and existential pain.


Are you suggesting that this sort of pain is never unbearable or sufficient cause for suicide?

User avatar
Grigoris
Former staff member
Posts: 14026
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Is suicide OK?

Postby Grigoris » Fri Jun 02, 2017 7:45 pm

boda wrote:Are you suggesting that this sort of pain is never unbearable or sufficient cause for suicide?
No.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

joy&peace
Posts: 709
Joined: Mon May 11, 2015 4:53 pm

Re: Is suicide OK?

Postby joy&peace » Wed Jun 07, 2017 6:26 pm

Suicide is not ok, unless you already did it.

Uh, too far?

Actually, I think the basic correct answer someone already gave.

Suicide is not so good because, our body is not our body.

It's interdependent with all life.

This is why Shantideva says, .. well .. what he says,

and why if you want to help the world, the best way,

Is to go out into the desert or mountain and meditate.

Then come back abs share -- after you've found peace.

But.. That peace has to be connected - like, not at the cost of others etc.

Anyway :D

Namaste.
:buddha2:
Om Gate Gate Paragate Parasamgate bodhi svaha

binocular
Posts: 374
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:58 pm

Re: Is suicide OK?

Postby binocular » Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:03 pm

Grigoris wrote:In my 20 something years as a psychologist and social worker I have yet to meet somebody that has attempted to commit suicide that has not regretted their action. Why? Because mainly because their decision to commit suicide was always based in a despair that did not allow them to see the possibility of change. In almost every single case, after the failed attempt, circumstances changed and allowed the person to live in a relative peace, but if the attempt had succeeded...

And it is possible that the very suicide attempt was what changed the circumstances (such as other people finally beginning to care about the person), or caused some kind of hormonal jolt in the body that changed the way a person thinks. Meaning, if they hadn't attempted suicide, they would have not found that new hope and way out of despair.

binocular
Posts: 374
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:58 pm

Re: Is suicide OK?

Postby binocular » Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:06 pm

Queequeg wrote:Not really. I didn't bring up anything about controlling people. I asked if it is acceptable to kill yourself according to Buddhadharma. The answer is pretty well settled - OK if you have no afflictions. If you are afflicted, it doesn't solve the problem you think you're solving, and likely makes things worse.

A situation is conceivable where a person reaches the point at which they see, with calm reason, that they won't be able to make any progress in the Dharma in this lifetime anymore. Such a person recognizes that they still have afflictions, but they also recognize that in this lifetime, they aren't able to do anything about them anymore. When such a person decides to commit suicide, it's not to end their suffering, but to make an end to the bodily vehicle that has become useless as far as making progress in the Dharma is concerned.

Soma999
Posts: 157
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2016 3:52 pm

Re: Is suicide OK?

Postby Soma999 » Fri Jun 09, 2017 1:33 pm

Taking one's life away does not finish karma. It creates more karma. And more suffering.

Pray for the ease of pain, and to be helped, even carried if you can't "walk" by yourself. Or the courage to walk through all the difficulties.

There are profesionnals and compassionate persons who can help.

Tolya M
Posts: 46
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:26 pm

Re: Is suicide OK?

Postby Tolya M » Sun Jun 18, 2017 2:17 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Tolya M wrote:The list of possible types of suffering is large and an even longer is list of conditions. It is quite clear that the intentional abandonment of the body can stop some of the suffering. This dependence of the level of "stop being sick". It is true within Abhidharma\Abhidhamma without any problems. It does not even make sense to consider it, it's so obvious.
Stop cherry picking, it doesn't make you look smart.


Well, I read what the "cherry picking" is ))) I did not do this because I did not identify particular cases with the whole possible mass of events. On the contrary, I said that there are a lot of possible cases. To discuss only the confused wordlings on the Buddhist forum is not very smart, because there is an opportunity to change the approach to life and death.

Buston gives an interesting detail about this last journey of the master. He says that while Vasubandhu was in the north, he went to visit a monk named Handu. Handu was inebriated, and carrying an immense pot of wine on his shoulder. Vasubandhu upon seeing this cried, "Alas! The Doctrine will go to ruin", recited the Usnisa-Vijaya-dharani in reverse order, and died.

User avatar
Grigoris
Former staff member
Posts: 14026
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Is suicide OK?

Postby Grigoris » Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:37 pm

Tolya M wrote:
Grigoris wrote:
Tolya M wrote:The list of possible types of suffering is large and an even longer is list of conditions. It is quite clear that the intentional abandonment of the body can stop some of the suffering. This dependence of the level of "stop being sick". It is true within Abhidharma\Abhidhamma without any problems. It does not even make sense to consider it, it's so obvious.
Stop cherry picking, it doesn't make you look smart.


Well, I read what the "cherry picking" is ))) I did not do this because I did not identify particular cases with the whole possible mass of events. On the contrary, I said that there are a lot of possible cases. To discuss only the confused wordlings on the Buddhist forum is not very smart, because there is an opportunity to change the approach to life and death.

Buston gives an interesting detail about this last journey of the master. He says that while Vasubandhu was in the north, he went to visit a monk named Handu. Handu was inebriated, and carrying an immense pot of wine on his shoulder. Vasubandhu upon seeing this cried, "Alas! The Doctrine will go to ruin", recited the Usnisa-Vijaya-dharani in reverse order, and died.
Ummmm... Yeah? :shrug:
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde


Return to “Ethical Conduct”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests