Is breatharians / going without any food a form of extreme asceticism?

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PeterC
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Re: Is breatharians / going without any food a form of extreme asceticism?

Post by PeterC » Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:46 am

well wisher wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:56 pm
- The general rule of 3 states: " You can survive for 3 Days without water (if sheltered from a harsh environment) " & "You can survive for 3 Weeks without food (if you have water and shelter)"
https://www.backcountrychronicles.com › wilderness-survival-rules-of-3
The version I was taught was: three weeks without food, three days without water, three minutes without air. But those are misleading guidelines. In practice after one week without food, you're too weak to search for food or travel far to seek help; a day without water will leave most people too confused to do much useful work; and a minute without air leaves you unconscious, even if it takes two more minutes for you to conclusively die.

tatpurusa
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Re: Is breatharians / going without any food a form of extreme asceticism?

Post by tatpurusa » Wed Nov 20, 2019 3:53 pm

PeterC wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:46 am
well wisher wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:56 pm
- The general rule of 3 states: " You can survive for 3 Days without water (if sheltered from a harsh environment) " & "You can survive for 3 Weeks without food (if you have water and shelter)"
https://www.backcountrychronicles.com › wilderness-survival-rules-of-3
The version I was taught was: three weeks without food, three days without water, three minutes without air. But those are misleading guidelines. In practice after one week without food, you're too weak to search for food or travel far to seek help; a day without water will leave most people too confused to do much useful work; and a minute without air leaves you unconscious, even if it takes two more minutes for you to conclusively die.
Well, I have never tried without water or air, but regarding the food part I can definitely confirm that what you say is just wrong.
2-3 weeks without any food but enough water gives no problems at all, you will still have more than enough energy to seek food or help.

PeterC
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Re: Is breatharians / going without any food a form of extreme asceticism?

Post by PeterC » Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:24 pm

tatpurusa wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 3:53 pm
PeterC wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:46 am
well wisher wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:56 pm
- The general rule of 3 states: " You can survive for 3 Days without water (if sheltered from a harsh environment) " & "You can survive for 3 Weeks without food (if you have water and shelter)"
https://www.backcountrychronicles.com › wilderness-survival-rules-of-3
The version I was taught was: three weeks without food, three days without water, three minutes without air. But those are misleading guidelines. In practice after one week without food, you're too weak to search for food or travel far to seek help; a day without water will leave most people too confused to do much useful work; and a minute without air leaves you unconscious, even if it takes two more minutes for you to conclusively die.
Well, I have never tried without water or air, but regarding the food part I can definitely confirm that what you say is just wrong.
2-3 weeks without any food but enough water gives no problems at all, you will still have more than enough energy to seek food or help.
This is for the purposes of survival - so it presupposes going from a regular diet, three meals a day, to nothing, for someone not used to it. A week of that would definitely leave the vast majority of people unable to function.

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Aemilius
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Re: Is breatharians / going without any food a form of extreme asceticism?

Post by Aemilius » Tue Nov 26, 2019 10:28 am

PeterC wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:46 am
well wisher wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:56 pm
- The general rule of 3 states: " You can survive for 3 Days without water (if sheltered from a harsh environment) " & "You can survive for 3 Weeks without food (if you have water and shelter)"
https://www.backcountrychronicles.com › wilderness-survival-rules-of-3
The version I was taught was: three weeks without food, three days without water, three minutes without air. But those are misleading guidelines. In practice after one week without food, you're too weak to search for food or travel far to seek help; a day without water will leave most people too confused to do much useful work; and a minute without air leaves you unconscious, even if it takes two more minutes for you to conclusively die.


The diving people have been holding their breath for much longer. I don't know what the current record is, but they hold breath for longer than ten minutes, and even for about twenty minutes. There are yogis who have held their breath for similar periods of time, and even longer. The magician David Blaine has held breath for 17 minutes and 4 seconds, in the year 2008.
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)

Simon E.
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Re: Is breatharians / going without any food a form of extreme asceticism?

Post by Simon E. » Tue Nov 26, 2019 11:01 am

well wisher wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:34 pm
Just wanted to confirm: would breatharians / Ineda practices be considered as extreme asceticism, in the view of the Buddha Dharma? Would such be considered too harmful or dangerous to even considered to be attempted? Or only experts with many years of training, should attempt such types of extreme practices?

Considering the story of Shakyamuni Buddha himself, who has taught that this type of practice was a form of extreme self mortification, possibly unnecessary and unwise. The traditional story goes that Shakyamuni Bodhisattva did attempt such similar extreme practices, going without food for many days meditating under the trees, right to near death's doorsteps, but unable to reach full enlighment. But then after he has taken up milk and rice offerings from Sujata the milkmaid, and only after then he was able to reach full enlightenment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sujata_(milkmaid)

But on the other hand, think of how much famine sufferings and deaths could be solved in this world, if people can actually live without food and water. And actually consider how much of modern world society is fighting wars, or enacting oppression with bickering strife upon one another, over such perceived "scarce planetary resources", including nutritious food and clean water. Maybe futuristic science can enable such lifestyle going without food and water, and solve this dilemma?
Related wiki article for consideration: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inedia

Also there had been tales about some modern expert mediators, being able to continue without any food and water during prolonged intense meditation sessions - Including Buddhists, Yogis, Jains ... etc.. It does kind of make sense, that being very still would lead to minimal expenditure of energy, thus not needing food and water. And also I remember being taught that one of the highest stage of meditation is is the "turtle breath" stage, being able to breath through skin alone without using the nose or mouth, and being completely still, like a mummy. Although I am not sure if this was Taoist or Buddhist in historical context . Are these forms of the extremist practices, that might have gone against Shakyamuni Buddha's teachings itself?

https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/sokushinbutsu
"The Monks Who Spent Years Turning Themselves into Mummies—While Alive"

P.S. To Admins: feel free to merge this into the Great Vegan / Vegetarian debates threads if you deem it such, it is related discussions after all.
Yes, it would be considered extreme and a departure from the middle way.
“ When the demon is at your door, in the morning it won’t be there no more
Any major dude will tell you”.

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well wisher
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Re: Is breatharians / going without any food a form of extreme asceticism?

Post by well wisher » Tue Nov 26, 2019 5:42 pm

Aemilius wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 10:28 am
PeterC wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:46 am
well wisher wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:56 pm
- The general rule of 3 states: " You can survive for 3 Days without water (if sheltered from a harsh environment) " & "You can survive for 3 Weeks without food (if you have water and shelter)"
https://www.backcountrychronicles.com › wilderness-survival-rules-of-3
The version I was taught was: three weeks without food, three days without water, three minutes without air. But those are misleading guidelines. In practice after one week without food, you're too weak to search for food or travel far to seek help; a day without water will leave most people too confused to do much useful work; and a minute without air leaves you unconscious, even if it takes two more minutes for you to conclusively die.


The diving people have been holding their breath for much longer. I don't know what the current record is, but they hold breath for longer than ten minutes, and even for about twenty minutes. There are yogis who have held their breath for similar periods of time, and even longer. The magician David Blaine has held breath for 17 minutes and 4 seconds, in the year 2008.
Right, practice makes perfect. Generally speaking, the more you do on something, the better you get at it.
Although to become an expert in fasting & minimalist survivalists can be very useful in a lot of modern situations, there are a lot of FATAL pitfalls in between as well.

High risks for high rewards? Just kidding...

But it seems many people do not have much of a choice though, with the unfavourable conditions they are placed in (eg. widespread poverty, oppressive governments or ruling corporate oligarchs, unfavourable environmental conditions unsuitable for growing food... etc).

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well wisher
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Re: Is breatharians / going without any food a form of extreme asceticism?

Post by well wisher » Tue Nov 26, 2019 5:51 pm

Simon E. wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 11:01 am
Yes, it would be considered extreme and a departure from the middle way.
Agreed, in the broader view and in what is generally taught in most schools, breatharians would be too extreme and not beneficial overall.

I am just a bit confused why there are even some Buddhists, and even some Bhikkus, in recent and recorded histories. whom would attempt or even encourage such practices, sort of like a religious zeal and fanaticism. Maybe the ability to become able to live without food is a badge of merits to them, or some proof of spiritual progress.
But prehaps the dangerous involved are not worth it, and prehaps not conductive towards reaching Nirvana.

Anyways, I am glad to have this forum to help sort out the misunderstandings.

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Re: Is breatharians / going without any food a form of extreme asceticism?

Post by PeterC » Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:56 am

Aemilius wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 10:28 am
PeterC wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:46 am
well wisher wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:56 pm
- The general rule of 3 states: " You can survive for 3 Days without water (if sheltered from a harsh environment) " & "You can survive for 3 Weeks without food (if you have water and shelter)"
https://www.backcountrychronicles.com › wilderness-survival-rules-of-3
The version I was taught was: three weeks without food, three days without water, three minutes without air. But those are misleading guidelines. In practice after one week without food, you're too weak to search for food or travel far to seek help; a day without water will leave most people too confused to do much useful work; and a minute without air leaves you unconscious, even if it takes two more minutes for you to conclusively die.


The diving people have been holding their breath for much longer. I don't know what the current record is, but they hold breath for longer than ten minutes, and even for about twenty minutes. There are yogis who have held their breath for similar periods of time, and even longer. The magician David Blaine has held breath for 17 minutes and 4 seconds, in the year 2008.
I’m not sure David Blaine is always completely honest about how he does these things. Just a suspicion...

Yes people who have trained rigorously for a long period of time can certainly do better. These are rules of thumb for ordinary untrained people who find themselves in dangerous situations, and as such they work pretty well

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Aemilius
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Re: Is breatharians / going without any food a form of extreme asceticism?

Post by Aemilius » Thu Nov 28, 2019 10:06 am

David Blaine tells about his almost life long training in breath holding, before the public attempt or public demonstration https://www.ted.com/talks/david_blaine_ ... 17_minutes
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)

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Aemilius
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Re: Is breatharians / going without any food a form of extreme asceticism?

Post by Aemilius » Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:57 am

There is a teaching in Dharma that beings subsist on four kinds of nutriments or four kinds of food, aahaara:

1. Edible food or material nutriment, kavadikaara-aahaara
2. Sense impressions, sparsha-aahaara
3. Volitions, samskara-aahaara or manahsamcetana-aahaara
4. Consciousness, citta-aahaara

There is an explanation of the four in John Powers' translation of the Samdhi Nirmocana sutra named Wisdom of Buddha. John Powers
translates them as "four sustenances".

Here is what Nyanaponika Thera says about them: https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/aut ... el105.html
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)

PeterC
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Re: Is breatharians / going without any food a form of extreme asceticism?

Post by PeterC » Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:44 am

Aemilius wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 10:06 am
David Blaine tells about his almost life long training in breath holding, before the public attempt or public demonstration https://www.ted.com/talks/david_blaine_ ... 17_minutes
If he said it in a TED talk, it must be true! :thumbsup:

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well wisher
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Re: Is breatharians / going without any food a form of extreme asceticism?

Post by well wisher » Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:44 am

Aemilius wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:57 am
There is a teaching in Dharma that beings subsist on four kinds of nutriments or four kinds of food, aahaara:

1. Edible food or material nutriment, kavadikaara-aahaara
2. Sense impressions, sparsha-aahaara
3. Volitions, samskara-aahaara or manahsamcetana-aahaara
4. Consciousness, citta-aahaara

There is an explanation of the four in John Powers' translation of the Samdhi Nirmocana sutra named Wisdom of Buddha. John Powers
translates them as "four sustenances".

Here is what Nyanaponika Thera says about them: https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/aut ... el105.html
Thanks for this lesson & link Aemilius , I did not see these before. Very interesting and insightful, at the very least for consultation purposes too.
In particular, this paragraph from the above accesstoinsight.org web page, stands out as being applicable to this topic about breatharism & fasting & refraining from eating food:
Others, again, have tried to solve the problem of the body's dependence on food by reducing nourishment below sustenance level and by long periods of fasting. This harsh and futile method of self-mortification the Buddha, too, had tried out and rejected before his Enlightenment, and had vividly described his experience in the Discourse on the Noble Quest (Ariya-pariyesana Sutta). Also later on, the Buddha never recommended periods of fasting beyond the abstention from solid food after noon enjoined upon bhikkhus, and in the periodic observance of the Eight or Ten Precepts. What the Buddha, as a teacher of the Middle Way, advised was moderation in eating, non-attachment to the taste of food, and wise reflection on nutriment.
Truly it is an undesirable world that we live in - the Saha world full of skandas & sufferings.
We are damned if we do eat (eg. inadvertently harming insects/snails/animals/sentient beings),
and we are damned if we do not eat (eg. death by dehydration & starvation).
The few saving graces appears to be: the ability to recognize these harsh facts as lessons,
hopefully able to refuse reincarnation in any world where Samsara exists,
and meanwhile take the treasured time to practice and live accordingly to the noble Buddha-dharma.

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Aemilius
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Re: Is breatharians / going without any food a form of extreme asceticism?

Post by Aemilius » Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:21 am

well wisher wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:44 am

hopefully able to refuse reincarnation in any world where Samsara exists,
How do you visualize he beginning of the kalpa or world-cycle? The beginning of stages of existence according to sutras and according to evolution biology.
Are predators in the process of evolution quilty of something 'bad', as this kind of Buddhism seems to imply?
Or are they a neccessary part of the web of existence, as the evolution view of biology emphasizes?
You can't really visualize life on planet Earth without tigers, volwes, bears, spiders, scorpions, crocodiles, sharks, snakes etc.., can you?
Is there not beauty in the jaws of a shark or in the stripes and teeth of a tiger?
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)

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Aemilius
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Re: Is breatharians / going without any food a form of extreme asceticism?

Post by Aemilius » Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:48 am

In the Aggañña sutta different kinds of food appear, levels of coarsness of food play a central role in this process:

"At a time of expansion, the beings from the Abhassara Brahma world, having died from there, are mostly reborn in this world. Here they dwell, mind-made, feeding on delight, self-luminous, moving through the air, glorious — and they stay like that for a very long time.

They floated above and around the Earth. At this time, there were not yet seen the Moon and the Sun, there were not yet Night and Day, there were not yet names and identity or female or male. The creatures were only known as creatures.

At that period, Vasettha, there was just one mass of water, and all was darkness, blinding darkness.... And sooner or later, after a very long period of time, savory earth spread itself over the waters where those beings were. It looked just like the skin that forms itself over hot milk as it cools. It was endowed with color, smell, and taste. It was the color of fine ghee or heated butter and it was very sweet, like pure wild honey.

Some of the creatures of light (the Abbhasaras) who had curiosity and a greedy nature began to dive and taste the savory Earth's substance. At that moment, the creature found out that it tasted so delicious. Thus, greed started to seep in and it ate the substance voraciously, greedily, also calling its comrades (who were flying above and on earth) to join in the feast. Not long afterwards, the creatures began to eat greedily, and due to the huge amount of the mud substance they could feed on it for a very long time.

As they ate and ate, their luminous body began to be coated by the mud substance, formed a coarser body, then suddenly, the sun and moon were seen, so were the stars, and also Night and Day began on Earth. The logical explanation of this was that the creatures were the self-illuminating, so blinding and luminous that they didn't notice the Sun. The Earth was covered in their light. So, when the materialization took place, the light faded inside their newly conceived 'body' of mud and thus the night and day became apparent to them. Then, as the night and day became apparent, seasons and years also appeared.

Their body was still coarse and roughly shaped. Thus, after a very long time, the mud-like substance began to be exhausted. Then, mushroom-like plants began to grow so fast that they replaced the mud-like ocean. The creatures began to devour them as well, and they also found it delicious, like sweet honey and milk. Their body hardened more and details began to turn finer.

After another very long time, the mushrooms also began to be exhausted, replaced by cassava or turnip-like plants. They also began to devour them night and day, and thus they began to notice differences amongst them. As the changes of their bodies varied between each other, the concept of difference arose. The concepts of the beautiful and the ugly were born. The beautiful scorns the ugly and they became arrogant because of their appearance.

Then, after the turnips, the earth was grown with rice plants. The first rice plants were without husk and kernels. The sweet and honey-like rice flourished seeds abundantly. The people consumed them for a very long time. But there are people who became greedy and lazy. They took more rice than they needed for one day's meals. They began to take two, four, eight, and sixteen days' of rice reserves as they were too lazy to take rice everyday. Owing to this, many other creatures began to store and hoard the rice. The generation time for rice plants became slower and slower. Usually, it took only one night for the plant to grow and be ready to be consumed, but by the karmic power the plant began to grow more and more slowly. Also the rice grew in kernels and husks, scattered, which the creatures must work, nurse, maintain, harvest, and cook in order to obtain the white rice. "
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)

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well wisher
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Re: Is breatharians / going without any food a form of extreme asceticism?

Post by well wisher » Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:41 pm

Aemilius wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:21 am
well wisher wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:44 am

hopefully able to refuse reincarnation in any world where Samsara exists,
How do you visualize he beginning of the kalpa or world-cycle? The beginning of stages of existence according to sutras and according to evolution biology.
Are predators in the process of evolution quilty of something 'bad', as this kind of Buddhism seems to imply?
Or are they a neccessary part of the web of existence, as the evolution view of biology emphasizes?
You can't really visualize life on planet Earth without tigers, volwes, bears, spiders, scorpions, crocodiles, sharks, snakes etc.., can you?
Is there not beauty in the jaws of a shark or in the stripes and teeth of a tiger?
No, Aemilius, I do not understand, so please clarify and answer my questions if you want to rebuttal.

I do not have much lessons or practice in imagining the Kalpa cycles, so I would not be able to answer your first question in depth. But my guess would be repeated cyclic in nature at least for this current Earth world, repeatedly: Existence -> Suffering -> Extinction -> Void -> Formation -> Existence ... etc.
I think the void is much better than being trapped in suffering existence, especially with so many uncontrollable factors.
But purelands with several living fully-qualified Buddhas, with minimal/controllable/no sufferings in those world, would be the best. And the more the better.

My main question of contention is: why force such a miserable conditioned existence onto sentient beings to become predators, such that they must survive by harming/killing other sentient beings?!? Why cannot they have an easy path to live in peace, and in harmony with other beings and self as well?
Maybe some evolution aspect is justifiable for self-defence. But it should not be abused for selfish purposes, to the point of becoming a tyrant of massive extinctions, like gigantic carnivorous dinosaurs.
(But Arguably, some of us humans are already doing so via massive industrial pollution and climate change, for the sake of their own greedy selfish profit motives. Search up extinction rebellion).

The only benefits of the predators you listed above, is prehaps herbivores population control, and to provide some "challenge" as catalyst for the rest of the beings. But arguably this will inflict a LOT of suffering and pains and deaths in the interim, prehaps too great of a challenge. Also difficult environmental factors (such as weather/drought/temperature/etc) already do provide enough of a challenge.
And if extrapolated further about increase in the "beautiful predators" that you admire, this only helps contribute to the earlier extinction all herbivores on this world, Earth / Saha world. And prehaps the entire eventually, total extinction.
Perhaps this is the best outcome, given all the sufferings and uncontrollable undesirable conditions of this very flawed world?

I do not see the beauty in suffering, especially those that arises from conflicts.
Sufferings MUST be a goal to be eradicated, as does all suffering should eventually be.
What I am trying to say is, there MUST be better ways than these.
If you do not agree, please do provide the reasons why? Thank you.

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Re: Is breatharians / going without any food a form of extreme asceticism?

Post by Aemilius » Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:25 pm

Buddhism doesn't take such negative view towards Nature and her creatures in the Jatakas. For example, in the Virocana Jataka Buddha himself was reborn as a lion, that eagerly killed other animals to feed on himself and to give to other animals, like a jackal in this story. See https://www.sacred-texts.com/bud/j1/j1146.htm
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)

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Re: Is breatharians / going without any food a form of extreme asceticism?

Post by well wisher » Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:59 pm

Aemilius wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:25 pm
Buddhism doesn't take such negative view towards Nature and her creatures in the Jatakas. For example, in the Virocana Jataka Buddha himself was reborn as a lion, that eagerly killed other animals to feed on himself and to give to other animals, like a jackal in this story. See https://www.sacred-texts.com/bud/j1/j1146.htm
But please remember that many schools of Buddhism also teaches that existence animals are one of the 3 worst destinations that an sentient being can become. (i.e. animal/hungry ghost/hell). it is not an existence to be encouraged nor admired.
I would not blame carnivores such as lions for the conditioned actions. Rather, I pity them, seeing them as fellow victims bounded to undesirable.
But solutions must be found to correct or their behaviour, and to lessen the suffering of all sentient beings overall.
Otherwise"peaceful natural decline then extinction" might be the best outcome for them, just like what has happened for dinosaurs. Hopefully those deceased carnivores will enjoy better rebirths and conditions in the afterlife.
(Sample solutions: making them adapt to vegetarian diets, or lab grown meat, prehaps more domesticated....etc. Plenty of workarounds possibility out there, just think.)
Otherwise - do you actually wish more lions to roam free and eat whoever they want? Feed more villagers to lions? Do you actually enjoy increased challenges, leading to increased misery and daily suffering?

Being stuck in the same loops with the same-old, with no improvements and no way out, does not sound like a solution to me.
Any teachings labelled "Buddhism" but without any consideration to the 4 noble truths, especially recognizing the fact about sufferings in undesirable conditioned existence AND solutions leading to the way out of misery, shall not be considered as appropriate Buddhism to me, and I refuse to follow such.

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Re: Is breatharians / going without any food a form of extreme asceticism?

Post by Nemo » Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:57 pm

Lets be honest though. 90% of these ding dongs are liars. Breatharians are generally full of shit con artists. They are breaking fundamental laws of physics. CO2 contains carbon, you breath out about 35 grams of carbon an hour at rest. Humans lose about an entire kilo per day of water and carbon in a single day just breathing.

Sure, some long life retreats have amazing results, but most of these people are fake.


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well wisher
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Re: Is breatharians / going without any food a form of extreme asceticism?

Post by well wisher » Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:22 am

Below is another supposedly "Buddhist" example of breatharianism.
Although it is quite dated (seems to be circa 1980's), and it seems to be combine pro-creator-god views as well, so it seems to be quite controversial, and possibly not pure authentic dharma for some people's view.

http://www.suprememastertv.tv/BMD/?wr_id=745&page=6
This program discusses the possibility of breatharianism, or living without eating food, and is not a full instruction. For your safety, please do not attempt to cease eating without proper expert guidance. For your safety, please do not attempt to cease eating without proper expert guidance.

Today’s Between Master and Disciples – “The Venerable Master Guang Qin: Food-free through Samadhi”
.....
As a living temple of God, the human body is fully equipped with miraculous wonders that can be awakened in those who are spiritually conscious and have complete faith in the Creator of all life. Inedia, Latin for “fasting,” is the human ability to live without food. Since time immemorial, there have always been individuals who can sustain themselves on prana, or the vital life force. Through the grace of the Providence, inediates, people who follow a food-free lifestyle, can draw the energy from nature to nourish themselves:

They live on the chi from the ground, or from the forest, and from the sun and from the air. They make use of all that. Or they live on love, on faith alone.

These individuals are known as breatharians(pranarians or inediates), solarians, or waterians, and they come from all walks of life, from different cultures, and all corners of the world.

Indeed, the possibilities and miracles in this life as our benevolent Creator has designed for us are endless; we only need to connect within to recognize our abounding largess as God’s children. Supreme Master Ching Hai has lovingly recommended a weekly series on Supreme Master Television to introduce those individuals of the past and present who have chosen to live food-free on Earth. May their spiritual stories enthrall you; may hearts be opened, and horizons be expanded. We now invite you to join us for our program entitled, “The Venerable Master Guang Qin: Food-free through Samadhi,” on Between Master and Disciples.
................
Since the time of Shakyamuni Buddha, Buddhist monks and nuns have followed the tradition of leading an ascetic lifestyle, renouncing material possessions and attachments to attain perfect wisdom and achieve enlightenment. Their life is dedicated to the spiritual upliftment of humankind, as well as their own personal cultivation. Aside from the daily activities, most of their time is spent in meditation. Absorbed in meditation, the monks or nuns oftentimes forgo food for days or months, sometimes years, as is the case with Ram Bahadur Bomjan, the Buddha Boy from Nepal, who at one time went food-free for four years while deep in samadhi. The inner bliss of meditation far exceeds the temporal satisfaction of physical food. The renowned Venerable Master Guang Qin of Formosa (Taiwan) was no different. He had been known to live without food and drink while engaged in deep meditation.
During his one-year retreat, he didn’t eat or drink. It was true. Many of his disciples were with him at that time.

Don't get me wrong, I still think very highly of Master Guang Qin, he truly was an exemplary monk and very wise teacher, truly worthy of respect. Many of his discourses were very practical & beneficial, and made a lot of sense.

But some of extraordinary feats that he had "supposedly achieved" might be somewhat doubtful; through tales that was spread by his followers - those might be exaggerated tales arisen from religious/spiritual fanaticism.
I wouldn't want to discount the possibility outright, but there are definite inherent health dangers to encouraging such practices, and the warnings should not be taken lightly.

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Re: Is breatharians / going without any food a form of extreme asceticism?

Post by well wisher » Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:30 am

Nemo wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:57 pm
Lets be honest though. 90% of these ding dongs are liars. Breatharians are generally full of shit con artists. They are breaking fundamental laws of physics. CO2 contains carbon, you breath out about 35 grams of carbon an hour at rest. Humans lose about an entire kilo per day of water and carbon in a single day just breathing.

Sure, some long life retreats have amazing results, but most of these people are fake.

Yes, this also reminds me of the classical historical example of Wiley Brooks, who eventually got busted.
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/kwpz ... r-pounders
Breatharian Leader Wiley Brooks Lives On Light, Air, And Quarter Pounders
....
Wiley Brooks isn’t dead, he’s 77, which for some will be a giveaway he’s no longer practicing what he’s still preaching. We called him on his personal Arizona hotline—he doesn’t use Skype because it’s “monitored by the NSA”—to talk about the downsides of his followers starving to death and the time he got busted eating a pie.

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