About apparent the irony of a NB bringing up sectarian arguments in a negative light? I thought I did, and I was saying we are not alone in having sectarian issues. Did you mean something else?Zhen Li wrote: I would have thought you'd know what I meant.
Yes, but my intention was to put forth an opinion on Buddhism and celibacy, not to discuss personal view on Buddhas, I know people can be stuck on their views of Buddhas.Zhen Li wrote:It's far more likely to be a debate between you and me, about your personal views on Buddhas, than between me and Nichiren.
True, I am a convert, and a former Christian/atheist, and I think.....8 years, however that is long enough for me to know why you probably believe what you believe on this subject because I believed the same thing. As a guy who has higher priorities than sex it was quite easy as well. Despite my position here, I do not frequent orgies.Zhen Li wrote:How long have you been a Buddhist?
Far from awkward, I actually have plenty of first hand knowledge of celibacy. But this stems more from ideas relating to masculinity, than it does a Buddhist influence. Ordained persons in Nichiren circles, at least as far as I know most of them, are under no obligation to be celibate, though were it me I probably would choose it.Zhen Li wrote: You really aren't making any sense here, and as far as I know, you are just uncomfortable with and culturally awkward with the idea of celibacy
Zhen Li wrote: If you have no desire, there's no reason to have sex, except as upaya.
I don't believe that Buddhas literally "have no desire". I don't even believe that is possible. I am aware that many Buddhists believe otherwise. And why they believe it.
That is not explicitly spelled out as far as I know. I would be surprised if it was. The personal lives of awakened beings are their personal lives. Celibacy would probably benefit some of them. Nichiren upheld his vows of celibacy for his own reasons, but never praised the choice in and of itself as necessary for attaining Buddhahood.Zhen Li wrote:Please quote me the Sutra where the Buddha has sex just for the sake of it.
My views here and on the relationship between awakened individuals and their desires comes from the mutual possession of the ten worlds, which is a teaching imported from Chi-I to Nichiren's thought, and how the teaching have been presented to me. Buddhahood is always a potential, and within Buddhahood is all the other 9 worlds. We are never actually "purged" of the capability to experience the other states of being. But they no longer hold us back from the highest joy of awakening. We are no longer need or are attached to those lesser joys nor are we overcome with the negative states of being. Being affected by them and being overcome by them are two different things. I would rather experience this state to a greater degree before talking about it much however. My attitude towards sex may be normal but I have other issues. Why an awakened being would have a sex life would be up to the individual. But this really is just a "sectarian difference" as you put it. Though I think somewhere in the samyutta nikaya, the Buddha once praised the loving affection of couples to Ananda as "the whole of the holy life".
by which I meant, "you have your religion, I have mine". And the issue of sexuality is not an important one to me in my own life. And that I am fine with people believing differently.Zhen Li wrote:This isn't black and white. The fact that some people can live without sex doesn't mean that they stay up at night or are bothered in any way. Some people are, some people aren't, it all depends on your point of view and reasons for living without sex. If some people are voluntarily celibate, it might be because they don't want it, like a Buddha wouldn't, or because they don't want to want it, in which case they may be frustrated until they either overcome their want, or don't, and continue to be frustrated. People who are involuntarily celibate may simply my asexual, or they could just be desiring sex and never come across it. Once again, there is a spectrum. The world has people who fit your expectations, and people who don't.Myoho-Nameless wrote:If you think differently, I don't care, I am happy and content with my religion and my attitude towards sex. It does not bother me, keep me up at night, nor cause me any confusion.
sorry if I rambled.