5 precepts. Alcohol?

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Simon E.
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Re: 5 precepts. Alcohol?

Post by Simon E. »

Can we 'develop' right understanding? Right understanding there is..but can it be developed?
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.

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Virgo
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Re: 5 precepts. Alcohol?

Post by Virgo »

Simon E. wrote:Can we 'develop' right understanding? Right understanding there is..but can it be developed?
Sure, it can be developed over time, slowly.

If you are asking if it is impersonal, the answer is certainly.

Kevin

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dzogchungpa
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Re: 5 precepts. Alcohol?

Post by dzogchungpa »

Virgo wrote:
Simon E. wrote:Can we 'develop' right understanding? Right understanding there is..but can it be developed?
Sure, it can be developed over time, slowly.
Indeed, see e.g. http://www.buddhisma2z.com/content.php?id=431
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

Simon E.
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Re: 5 precepts. Alcohol?

Post by Simon E. »

Virgo wrote:
Simon E. wrote:Can we 'develop' right understanding? Right understanding there is..but can it be developed?
Sure, it can be developed over time, slowly.


If you are asking if it is impersonal, the answer is certainly.

Kevin
Well, have at it Kevin.. :namaste:
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.

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dzogchungpa
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Re: 5 precepts. Alcohol?

Post by dzogchungpa »

Simon E. wrote:
Virgo wrote:
Simon E. wrote:Can we 'develop' right understanding? Right understanding there is..but can it be developed?
Sure, it can be developed over time, slowly.


If you are asking if it is impersonal, the answer is certainly.

Kevin
Well, have at it Kevin.. :namaste:
Perhaps we should all have at it.

:focus:
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

Rakz
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Re: 5 precepts. Alcohol?

Post by Rakz »

Most people can't handle alcohol so it would be wise to do what the supreme Buddha of our time (Shakyamuni) said about this. Just say No . Where is the willpower these days?

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Thomas Amundsen
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Re: 5 precepts. Alcohol?

Post by Thomas Amundsen »

Rakz wrote:Most people can't handle alcohol so it would be wise to do what the supreme Buddha of our time (Shakyamuni) said about this. Just say No . Where is the willpower these days?
Paraphrasing Khyentse Rinpoche, "Guru Rinpoche doesn't exactly say 'no' to alcohol all the time."

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kirtu
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Re: 5 precepts. Alcohol?

Post by kirtu »

Rakz wrote:Most people can't handle alcohol so it would be wise to do what the supreme Buddha of our time (Shakyamuni) said about this. Just say No . Where is the willpower these days?
I realize that some people addicted to alcohol (or who think they are) believe this and they also generalize it for all people.

However it's just not true.

Secondly Mahayana and esp. Vajrayana are not Theravada. Vajrayana is also not a strict interpretation of the Mahayana precepts as seen through the prism of Chinese cultural mores, for example, with it's heavy emphasis on avoidance of meat as well as its often very restricted personal deportment.

In Vajrayana alcohol can be used and often is used in (usually) sparing quantities. This is not a violation of the precepts. One of the purposes of this is to practice pure vision - seeing all phenomena as pure, etc.

Kirt
Last edited by kirtu on Mon Jul 18, 2016 10:01 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

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Simon E.
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Re: 5 precepts. Alcohol?

Post by Simon E. »

Rakz wrote:Most people can't handle alcohol so it would be wise to do what the supreme Buddha of our time (Shakyamuni) said about this. Just say No . Where is the willpower these days?


I think we should take responsibility for our statements. I can handle alcohol, a glass of wine or beer, just fine. So can most of the adults I know.
Those that can't are wise to leave it alone.
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.

Malcolm
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Re: 5 precepts. Alcohol?

Post by Malcolm »

Rakz wrote:Most people can't handle alcohol so it would be wise to do what the supreme Buddha of our time (Shakyamuni) said about this. Just say No . Where is the willpower these days?
This is the fallacy called Argumentum ad populum.

Rakz
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Re: 5 precepts. Alcohol?

Post by Rakz »

Malcolm wrote:
Rakz wrote:Most people can't handle alcohol so it would be wise to do what the supreme Buddha of our time (Shakyamuni) said about this. Just say No . Where is the willpower these days?
This is the fallacy called Argumentum ad populum.
I don't know what its called. Just sharing my opinion.

Rakz
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Re: 5 precepts. Alcohol?

Post by Rakz »

kirtu wrote:Most people can't handle alcohol so it would be wise to do what the supreme Buddha of our time (Shakyamuni) said about this. Just say No . Where is the willpower these days?

I realize that some people addicted to alcohol (or who think they are) believe this and they also generalize it for all people.

However it's just not true.
Could be. I come from a family with a heavy drinking tradition and have been involved with it in the past. However, I don't have a problem with drinking on special occasions.

Rakz
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Re: 5 precepts. Alcohol?

Post by Rakz »

Simon E. wrote:
Rakz wrote:Most people can't handle alcohol so it would be wise to do what the supreme Buddha of our time (Shakyamuni) said about this. Just say No . Where is the willpower these days?


I think we should take responsibility for our statements. I can handle alcohol, a glass of wine or beer, just fine. So can most of the adults I know.
Those that can't are wise to leave it alone.
True.

boda
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Re: 5 precepts. Alcohol?

Post by boda »

Simon E. wrote:
Rakz wrote:Most people can't handle alcohol so it would be wise to do what the supreme Buddha of our time (Shakyamuni) said about this. Just say No . Where is the willpower these days?


I think we should take responsibility for our statements. I can handle alcohol, a glass of wine or beer, just fine. So can most of the adults I know.
Those that can't are wise to leave it alone.
I imagine you can handle dishonesty and violence also. Being able to handle something does make it beneficial to a practice. Indeed if you didn't need to handle it a practice would benefit, which is the point I believe.

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dzogchungpa
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Re: 5 precepts. Alcohol?

Post by dzogchungpa »

I find that I can handle DW much better after a few drinks.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

boda
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Re: 5 precepts. Alcohol?

Post by boda »

Crutches often outlive their intended utility.

Simon E.
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Re: 5 precepts. Alcohol?

Post by Simon E. »

Rakz wrote:
kirtu wrote:Most people can't handle alcohol so it would be wise to do what the supreme Buddha of our time (Shakyamuni) said about this. Just say No . Where is the willpower these days?

I realize that some people addicted to alcohol (or who think they are) believe this and they also generalize it for all people.

However it's just not true.
Could be. I come from a family with a heavy drinking tradition and have been involved with it in the past. However, I don't have a problem with drinking on special occasions.
That sounds like you have a sensible awareness of your need to be cautious.
Good for you.
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.

Simon E.
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Re: 5 precepts. Alcohol?

Post by Simon E. »

boda wrote:
Simon E. wrote:
Rakz wrote:Most people can't handle alcohol so it would be wise to do what the supreme Buddha of our time (Shakyamuni) said about this. Just say No . Where is the willpower these days?


I think we should take responsibility for our statements. I can handle alcohol, a glass of wine or beer, just fine. So can most of the adults I know.
Those that can't are wise to leave it alone.
I imagine you can handle dishonesty and violence also. Being able to handle something does make it beneficial to a practice. Indeed if you didn't need to handle it a practice would benefit, which is the point I believe.

I realise that with Jundo gone you have been wandering around the forum looking for a sparring partner to project onto, but it ain't me babe. You need to find another means to process your angst. 'Ignore User' deployed.
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.

vinegar
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Re: 5 precepts. Alcohol?

Post by vinegar »

Simon E. wrote:Au contraire. :namaste:
I think you need to be careful if you are planning an attainment pissing contest.
This forum has specific things to say about that in its TOS.
"Being aware of the present moment" and still depending on sense objects are mutually exclusive, this is not even limited to buddhadharma. Maybe you need to study a little about samadhi. And alcohol's carcinogenic properties.

boda
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Re: 5 precepts. Alcohol?

Post by boda »

Ad hominem falicies are used when no valid counter argument is available. This isn't personal, Simon, I'm merely trying to clarify and understand.

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